Why do i need FF?

[twittle]

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Andy,

I think you have trans-format inertia, a condition where your mind is in one format while using another format.

This seemed less of an issue for 35mm users when moving to medium format that it is moving to a smaller than 35mm. All focal lengths are correct withing their format reality.

Bob

 

This isn't really an issue of "focal lengths", but rather the field of view normally associated with a particular focal length. Of course the focal length hasn't changed, but the field of view certainly has.

[andybarton]

This isn't really an issue of "focal lengths", but rather the field of view normally associated with a particular focal length. Of course the focal length hasn't changed, but the field of view certainly has.

 

Sorry - I thought that was obvious. My apologies if there was any confusion in my post.

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[twittle]

Sorry - I thought that was obvious. My apologies if there was any confusion in my post.

 

I knew what you were getting at, but it didn't seem to me like Bob did, so I was just trying to clarify.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I'm a doubter. £10 says Guy doesn't know any more than anyone else here.

 

He thinks it's good for his image, to let people think he does, though

 

Leica reps are under a €40,000 NDA. That's got to hurt. That's why things are very tight this year, and why the viral marketing has been so successful. Leica should be congratulated.

 

Oh Andy if only you knew my friend. I really don't need a good image been ugly for years and well accepted at least by my wife. ROTFLMAO

 

Andy BTW how would you like to send that 10 euro, wanna go double or nothing

[stunsworth]

If you know things you can't say, and you're not on an NDA, my guess is that your dealer has spilled the beans.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Steve there are days when it is wise not to question things or discuss anything. Today is one of those accept it or not but it ends here. Do NOT try to bait me on this one

[cfritze]

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With all the talk of modern lenses and their edge-to-edge sharpness, maybe another factor of FF is being overlooked. I have some older lenses that are regarded (positively) for the difference between how they draw at the center of the frame vs further on the edges of the field. On the M8 or R-D1 I don't get the full benefit of this effect. FF gets you that.

[ljclark]

But back to Lucy's question...

 

As someone mentioned before FOV is pretty important. There are aspects of DOF, OOF (Bokeh), and low light performance that also come into play -- to some extent. But a bunch of folks seem to think: "Golly. I need an M9. Then I'll also need to buy at least two new Leica lenses to go with it -- preferably very fast Leica lenses." If that's the program here, all you generous folks can point some of that love in my direction. My local store is very accommodating when it comes to cashier's checks, international bank thingies, Euros, etc. And I will personally kiss your boots at high noon on the U.S. Capitol steps on the 4th of July.

 

Back to the topic...If the 28 and 50 FOVs are good now, how is going to an M9 going to improve the shooting experience? Different people have different FOV sweet spots. The focal length of the lens is important to the extent is helps a shooter get to that sweet spot. (With the M8 I use my 50mm MUCH more than I did on the M6s and my earlier Bessas.) After shooting for a few years, I kinda know where I want to be with lenses. The M9 would make it easier for my brain to preselect a focal length in order to get the desired FOV. But my DX sensored Nikons have been messing with my mind too.

 

The "focal length it was intended to be"? Give me a break. That's just another form of measurebating.

 

My measure for this is when I discover that I keep hitting a wall with the gear I have, and can identify a solution to solve the problem. (Art, by the way, has a lot to do with problem solving.)

 

I don't think Lucy needs to so anything until that wall appears.

 

And I'm not sure where the price of used M8s will end up. There will be a drop, but it might hold steady after that if M8s are seen to be decent entry points for DRF shooting. There might even be a glut of inexpensive IR cut filters.

 

And lurking in the back of my mind is the Zeiss question. Seeing where the price point is with the M9, will they make a move with a body $1K to $1.5K less expensive? But how would Zeiss handle lens coding? (My suggestion for lens coding is a small RFID chip epoxied into a pocket in the lens mount. You could come up with hundreds of variations and the alignment would be less critical.)

 

To the original question: You probably don't. There may be absolutely no advantage.

[lxlim]

If you know things you can't say, and you're not on an NDA, my guess is that your dealer has spilled the beans.

 

Integrity is a nice thing to have. Saves you time signing all those NDAs and opens a whole new vista of possibilities.

[guidomo]

Integrity is a nice thing to have. Saves you time signing all those NDAs and opens a whole new vista of possibilities.

 

Integrity is a nice thing, but Apple would not be where it is today if it had relied on that alone.

[Mauribix]

I'm a doubter. £10 says Guy doesn't know any more than anyone else here.

 

He thinks it's good for his image, to let people think he does, though

 

I bet my 10euros on Guy to know something about. And that's not something related to imaginary reputation.

 

Wasn't actually him who first tested the new improved M8's AWB, together with a premiere release of the new firmware as well?

 

What is the quote here? What do the UK's bookmakers say?

 

here my 2cents.... ooops... my 10 Euros.

[shootinglulu]

Thanks a lot. As usual people are very kind and helpful here.

I feel better about my redundant M8! I don't really think i need an upgrade yet, however i am pretty p o'd that i didn't have the prescience to know that i should have waited a couple of months for the M9.

[diogenis]

To the original question: You probably don't. There may be absolutely no advantage.

 

Need or no need an M9 is questionable and a personal matter of how you can exploit an M9, however there are MANY advantages owing one. It is a better tool, it is a superset of what an M8 is now, or vice versa, an M8 is a subset of what M9 will be. And I also suspect it will give you better IQ, but that's a job for Sean,Guy and others to say.

 

again:

+Bigger picture due to larger sensor = wider lenses

+Quieter shutters when compared to M8

+Faster than 4000/s when compared to 8.2 due to ISO80 and more advanced sensor

Remains to be seen:

faster electronics?

seals?

trade in programmes?

[diogenis]

Thanks a lot. As usual people are very kind and helpful here.

I feel better about my redundant M8! I don't really think i need an upgrade yet, however i am pretty p o'd that i didn't have the prescience to know that i should have waited a couple of months for the M9.

 

Lulu,

The M8 is no way a redundant camera!

Also, if you bought one used you didnt paid a fortune either. Let's see if Leica surprises us even more later on today...

[pgk]

Using the 21mm f/1.4 at 1.4 on a FF camera will be an experience unique to the Leica M9 user! If you shoot wide in low light then this is one very good reason to move to FF. One of my most used Canon lenses is the 24/1.4 so.....

[ShyTot]

I bet my 10euros on Guy to know something about. And that's not something related to imaginary reputation.

 

If Guy knows anything it's superficial stuff that many people know and he's learned it at the last minute from a dealer update. I've known lots of info for over a month, but my ego is in control.

 

I'm also fully aware that there are three Beta testers regularly posting on these Forums that haven't spilled a single bean, not one, although one has made it clear that he's publishing tests soon.

 

What's more, they actually know who the others are, but not a word. Guy knows zero that 20 people here have known for weeks.

 

Enjoy the day, it's a milestone for Leica and their loyal customers.

[Venkman]

Leica reps are under a €40,000 NDA. That's got to hurt. That's why things are very tight this year, and why the viral marketing has been so successful. Leica should be congratulated.

 

NDA with 40k penalty? That's only 7.3 M9s, not that much...

And regarding the viral marketing - it's not there. What we see is the buzz among Leicaphiles, there's no buzz to speak of outside our little world - sad, but true.

 

It would have gone viral if my neighbour would have greeted me with "have you heard, the M9 comes out today...". He did not (which is too bad, cause he's a well established pro).

 

Anyway, back to our Kindergarten - I'm gonna sit in my office this afternoon, hoping for a working webcast (something that, out of experience, almost never works as intended).

[guidomo]

NDA with 40k penalty? That's only 7.3 M9s, not that much...

 

Yes, but more like 30x the profit they'll make with selling an M9.

 

On what you wrote about "viral marketing": 100% true!!

[guidomo]

I happen to be in Bangkok for a conference and 9:09am is past here. They did play the national anthem in honour of King Rama IX. Very nice.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

Need or no need an M9 is questionable and a personal matter of how you can exploit an M9, however there are MANY advantages owing one. It is a better tool, it is a superset of what an M8 is now, or vice versa, an M8 is a subset of what M9 will be. And I also suspect it will give you better IQ, but that's a job for Sean,Guy and others to say.

 

again:

+Bigger picture due to larger sensor = wider lenses

+Quieter shutters when compared to M8

+Faster than 4000/s when compared to 8.2 due to ISO80 and more advanced sensor

Remains to be seen:

faster electronics?

seals?

trade in programmes?

Where does the quieter shutter come from? I get the impression it is the same one as in the M8.2.