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shootinglulu

Why do i need FF?

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If you have to ask

 

if you want to use them at their correct focal length, then you need FF. if you are happy with them as 35ish and 65ish, then you don't.

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Well for a start you wouldn't have to do the maths

, 28 would be 28 (instead of 37) and 50 would be 50 (instead of 67). On the other hand, if you like 37 and 67, you might need to change lenses:eek:.

 

I think wide-angle shooters in particular will be pleased that their wides are wide.

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Guest guy_mancuso

Seriously you are not gaining anything per say you are getting more MPX and that alone for me if buying would do it 10 to 18 would be welcome. Other than that you just have odd size numbering compared to actually focal length of the lens . Your 28mm today is a 35mm on a M8 crop . Tomorrow your 28mm will be a 28mm on a M9 . Now the one remaining issue is the speed of the lens and actually that has changed now since Leica came out with very fast 21 and 24 mm lenses . So now your M8 21mm 1.4 is a fast 28mm almost but a M9 21mm is a fast 1.4 so the M9 gains wide angles wider than 28mm . Those are really the difference on the surface . Now obviously the M9 will not need IR filters as well and has some better feature sets over the M8. For the would be buyer coming from a M8 you just have to decide what is the differences that would make it a valuable purchase to you. Obviously I did not hit every point here in those differences and benefits over one or the other but in general those are it. Hope that helps a little and from me I can't talk anymore since I already know what the extra benefits are and you will know those tomorrow.

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Well. leaving aside the controversy that will inevitably ensue if any objective comparisons of differing formats are made, I, personally, have never been entirely satisfied the images which I've taken on reduced formats in many cases. That said, I have managed to live with a 1.33x crop factor on the M8, but have used Canon FF dSLRs since they became available, so for me a FF (or apparently in Nikon parlance FX) camera is more satisfying to use. Whether I'll change any lenses remains to be seen but I anticipate retaining the 50/1.4 Asph at least - but a fast wide on FF is an exciting possibility as far as I am concerned.

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I have 28 and 50 mm lenses to suit my M8 and i am very happy with these focal lengths.

What benefit would FF be to me?

Well... cropping out the center 10 Mpixels in Lightroom, you basically can use the M9 as a M9 or a M8, i.e. use your 28 as a 28 or 35 and your 50 as a 50 or a 65. So you buy a M9 and get two lenses for free... or something like that...

 

Bernd

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As the initial poster, i was thinking about this FF advantage. In my case the M8 is my first real camera and i did not need to adjust my perception of the focal lenght. As the initial poster of this thread i often use 28f2 and 50f1.4 and is perfect. What i see is that the lens i have (the two mentioned plus 3 summarits) are a lot less good at the FF corners. Will this, in adition to some possible M9 vigneting (?) mean that i will get 8 million pixels more but of lower quality ? My M8 uses the soft center of my lenses, the image is perfect at least until A4 size wich is perfect for me as I m only an amateur. On the other hand I feel strong attraction for this 18M pixels...I really do not know what to do . I suppose that the resale value of my M8 will help me decide !

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The key to FF is that your std and wides remain as they are --- std and wides. Your longs will get shorter but who cares about that in a rangefinder platform.

 

In other words, a FF body will get the rangefinder back to its original roots.

 

Of course, you can compensate for that in the M8 by mountnig super wides so that they become a 35-ish lens. That may be a better investment because the newer Leica lenses seem to go up in price every 6 months while the digital bodies drops by 50% when a new one is released every 2 year or so.

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If we set aside all the possible advance in electronics/firmware, the M8 will always be a minor M9. The M9 instantly grants you with wider lenses without you paying anything for it.

Also there maybe an IQ advance due to no compression and more bits, but that remains to be seen.

 

And all that to the same size/volume/weight. And this is an achievement alone...

Edited by diogenis

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For dSLRs the biggest advantage of full frame is that you can use wide angle lenses as wide angle lenses, rather than having to rely on crazy ultra wides that are much slower and probably show more distortion for the same effective field of view.

Unfortunately, Leica's choice of internal viewfinder for the M9 means that you will have to use an external viewfinder for framing anything wider than 35mm after you have focussed in the internal viewfinder. So actually, for a really fluid, genuinely responsive workflow you get a 1 stop advantage of using a 35 lux on an M9 instead of a 28 cron on an M8.

IMHO, every lens wider than about 28mm (edge of internal viewfinder on M9) that is fast enough to require rangefinder focussing requires a 2-step workflow of focus and framing that is not suited to fast action wide angle wide aperture reportage.

The Leica brochure decribes "capturing the moment" but they don't say that you have to pre-focus for anything wider than 35mm. You won't know whether or not this will work for you until you have an M9 in your hands; so when you do, I suggest trying it with a fast wide angle. People have done this in the past with film M's, but have you ?

 

Other than that rangefinder-specific compromise, expect lower noise for the same print size, better dynamic range, and smoother tonal transitions. All of these are very valuable.

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Unfortunately, Leica's choice of internal viewfinder for the M9 means that you will have to use an external viewfinder for framing anything wider than 35mm after you have focussed in the internal viewfinder. So actually, for a really fluid, genuinely responsive workflow you get a 1 stop advantage of using a 35 lux on an M9 instead of a 28 cron on an M8.

IMHO, every lens wider than about 28mm (edge of internal viewfinder on M9) that is fast enough to require rangefinder focussing requires a 2-step workflow of focus and framing that is not suited to fast action wide angle wide aperture reportage.

The Leica brochure decribes "capturing the moment" but they don't say that you have to pre-focus for anything wider than 35mm. You won't know whether or not this will work for you until you have an M9 in your hands; so when you do, I suggest trying it with a fast wide angle. People have done this in the past with film M's, but have you ?

 

Other than that rangefinder-specific compromise, expect lower noise for the same print size, better dynamic range, and smoother tonal transitions. All of these are very valuable.

 

M9 provided Frame lines to 28mm. You need an external viewfinder for 24mm or wider.

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For dSLRs the biggest advantage of full frame is that you can use wide angle lenses as wide angle lenses, rather than having to rely on crazy ultra wides that are much slower and probably show more distortion for the same effective field of view.

Unfortunately, Leica's choice of internal viewfinder for the M9 means that you will have to use an external viewfinder for framing anything wider than 35mm after you have focussed in the internal viewfinder. So actually, for a really fluid, genuinely responsive workflow you get a 1 stop advantage of using a 35 lux on an M9 instead of a 28 cron on an M8.

IMHO, every lens wider than about 28mm (edge of internal viewfinder on M9) that is fast enough to require rangefinder focussing requires a 2-step workflow of focus and framing that is not suited to fast action wide angle wide aperture reportage.

The Leica brochure decribes "capturing the moment" but they don't say that you have to pre-focus for anything wider than 35mm. You won't know whether or not this will work for you until you have an M9 in your hands; so when you do, I suggest trying it with a fast wide angle. People have done this in the past with film M's, but have you ?

 

Other than that rangefinder-specific compromise, expect lower noise for the same print size, better dynamic range, and smoother tonal transitions. All of these are very valuable.

 

I am fairly certain the M9 has 28mm framelines. I do wonder what the focal length equivalent for the entire frame will be however, it would be nice if it's very close to 24mm! best...Peter

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Ah yes I also forgot the new shutter: basically those with M8s will notice the leap more than those with m8.2s

On the other hand I also expect upgrade packs that will soon release after the introduction of the M9 that will give you the 2m VF, maybe the sapphire lcd cover etc...

Don't forget that this model is introduced while Europe is still not yet fully recovered from a world economic crisis... So.. kudos to Leica for developing this now...

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The key to FF is that your std and wides remain as they are --- std and wides. Your longs will get shorter but who cares about that in a rangefinder platform.

 

In other words, a FF body will get the rangefinder back to its original roots.

 

Oh please, that has to be the daftest argument yet. Back to it's roots - with an 18Mp sensor inside and Snapshot mode? Hardly.

 

The whole crop factor thing is a total red herring - we had the same nonsense when the first dSLR's came out with cropped sensors. I defy anyone to tell the difference by looking at an image between an M8 + 35mm and an M9 + 50mm.

 

FF is of no benefit by itself, however Exile put it perfectly:

 

expect lower noise for the same print size, better dynamic range, and smoother tonal transitions.

 

I really hope this is correct, but 18Mp is a lot; for a company that has done it's own unique thing for decades it is very odd to see them being drawn into the megapixel race.

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