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Guest Essemmlee

M9 Pricing confirmed!!

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Peter - thanks for separating out the VAT. That's $6,650 (+ tax of whatever kind) as of today. I'll still wait for Leica USA's official price before celebrating/moaning.

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The last couple of days I've been working on a lot of Canon images for uploading to a photo agency. I'm more convinced that ever that the M8 is a better camera than the 5D. Colours from the Leica are better, and the images are sharper. I'm happy to pay the Leica premium.

 

Steve, you're not far wrong here, I've been optimising raw files from 2 shoots from 5D, 5D2 and M8 cameras. Don't get me wrong, the 5D2 files are very good but they do suffer from shadow problems far sooner than M8 files. An M8 file exposed correctly is a much easier file to apply adjustments to. If the M9 files are as good as the M8, and are 'quieter' at higher ISOs, then I for one will be making a serious purchase decision as soon as I can. If the price is in 1DS3 territory then the camera should actually be competitive.

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The M9 could result in some interesting used M8 and M8.2 prices and attract more first time Leica users.

 

This forum seems to be giving very little attention to the rumoured digital R solution. If there is one, why haven't there been some leaks?

 

Cheers

 

dunk

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"This forum seems to be giving very little attention to the rumoured digital R solution. If there is one, why haven't there been some leaks?"

 

I think you answered your own question (in reverse): "No leaks" = "no attention"

 

Plus - this is the M digital forum. R would fall elsewhere. As did the X1 (after a little preliminary confusion....)

 

Plus - there isn't one. Yet.

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These speculative prices are a fair shocker. I had a deposit on a new M8.2 ("ex-demo", unregistered) which was £2699, a pretty good price, but the dealer has agreed to take that deposit and some part exchange as a deposit on the M9.

 

That M8.2 is starting to look quite good value. Leica might surprise us, but given the S2 pricing, it's looking like a bad surprise...

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A dealer in NY told me today to expect a price of around $7500 US. He won't know the real price till tomorrow like everyone else.

 

A definite from my dealer in USA: $6995, 2K deposit.

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Deposit? Is he not expecting product tomorrow? $6,995 is just barely inside my comfort zone - if true.

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Guest guy_mancuso

Regardless of what the price maybe I would not be putting a 2k deposit on it. Plenty of Leica dealers that do not require a deposit. Check around before you do that

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Regardless of what the price maybe I would not be putting a 2k deposit on it. Plenty of Leica dealers that do not require a deposit. Check around before you do that

 

Don't bother with deposits. Many got their M8 much before those who were on a deposit list.

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Deposit? Is he not expecting product tomorrow? $6,995 is just barely inside my comfort zone - if true.

 

Yes--that is right on the inside of the outside figure

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But have no fear, Bam Bam is bound and determined to make North America a subset of Europe.

 

No, Bush already did that. Unintentionally.

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I don't know what slice of the poor photographer's market I represent, but I'm going to have to stick with my M8 if that's true...

 

Anyone know what the M3-M7 bodies cost in today's dollars when they were released?

 

This isn't quite what you asked for but it may help set some perspective ...

 

The first year that the M3 was freely available in the UK was (I think) 1960. Before then there were strict import restrictions. The cost was about £150 - roughly $450-$500 at then's exchange rates - which included a massive chunk of import duty and purchase tax. Using average earnings as a basis for comparison that converts to about £6,000 in today's money - about $9,900. Google Measuring Worth - Relative Value of UK Pounds for more conversion options.

 

But, those UK figures are actually misleading because some of the important base-lines have changed.

 

In 1960, the dealer got 33.3% discount off the price excluding purchase tax, so he actually paid Leitz £80 net and his mark-up was 50% on his cost. Today, dealer margins are much less - probably no more than 15% or 17.5% mark-up max (I'm long since retired from the trade) and VAT is just 15%. So, an M3 in today's market-pricing would have been sold at £(80 + 12 + 14) = £106, or about £4,200 or almost $7,000. (All these figures are rounded-off)

 

So, would an M9 be good value at £5,000 ?

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Deposit? Is he not expecting product tomorrow? $6,995 is just barely inside my comfort zone - if true.

 

Me too, and that's grinning and bearing it. Anything more and I'll be waiting until some well used ones come on the market.

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Deposit? Is he not expecting product tomorrow? $6,995 is just barely inside my comfort zone - if true.

 

Agreed, I'll see you there Andy, hopefully it will live up to expectations at that price.....getting in the shower now, time to hit the road...

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This isn't quite what you asked for but it may help set some perspective ...

 

The first year that the M3 was freely available in the UK was (I think) 1960. Before then there were strict import restrictions. The cost was about £150 - roughly $450-$500 at then's exchange rates - which included a massive chunk of import duty and purchase tax. Using average earnings as a basis for comparison that converts to about £6,000 in today's money - about $9,900. Google Measuring Worth - Relative Value of UK Pounds for more conversion options.

 

But, those UK figures are actually misleading because some of the important base-lines have changed.

 

In 1960, the dealer got 33.3% discount off the price excluding purchase tax, so he actually paid Leitz £80 net and his mark-up was 50% on his cost. Today, dealer margins are much less - probably no more than 15% or 17.5% mark-up max (I'm long since retired from the trade) and VAT is just 15%. So, an M3 in today's market-pricing would have been sold at £(80 + 12 + 14) = £106, or about £4,200 or almost $7,000. (All these figures are rounded-off)

 

So, would an M9 be good value at £5,000 ?

 

If correct, these figures seem extraordinarily low. Even dealers' commissions on used equipment are higher than 15% to 17.5%. And I know that mark ups on new accessories eg independent brand filters are at least 50% of cost price and can be over 100%.

 

Cheers

 

dunk

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Dunk -

 

As I said, I'm long retired from the photo-retail world, but I think a profit margin of 15% would not be unusual for cameras and lenses in the UK today. Low margins are one way for distributors to curb price cutting and so-called market destabilisation.

 

There are (and always have been) retrospective dscounts based on turnover, free-of-charge items and promotional 'gifts' for dealers who keep to the official policy, which is how some element of profit actually exists. Otherwise, who would want to tie up scores of thousands of £s, $s or €s for a return of 15% gross?

 

And yes, accessories and add-ons do carry much bigger margins - I recall one campaign in the 1980s when we sold one Minolta SLR at NET COST and made our money by stripping out the lithium battery and pretty much making customers buy a UV filter, a case - both of which were f-o-c items. That way, we actually made a gross margin of around 20%. Crazy, eh?

 

Sorry, this is a little off-topic.

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