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Have Leica Abandoned The M8?

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And its about honour too - some of you seem to consider that breaking one's word is fine. Not in my book.

 

Oh come on...

 

No "word" was given. You really are coming across as an ad-man's dream...

 

Just accept reality and move on.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

Edited by bill

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On that, we can agree... it seems there are some around here who regard ethics as a county to the Southeast of London...

 

I think it was the South African philospher Immenuel Kent who first cracked that one.

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Oh come on...

 

No "word" was given. You really are coming across as an ad-man's dream...

 

Just accept reality and move on.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

So Bill is it your reality we must all accept and move on? You seem to aspire to the Nikita Khruschev philosophy that "promises are like pie crust, made to be broken." Where does responsibility start and end with you and at what point to you hold corporations or governments accountable for their actions, or is it just a world where it's the consumers fault for being so naive. If that is the case then why put trust in any one thing and invest your money in it. A sad world indeed. My two cents are that Leica needs to make a statement regarding its position on the M8 since it has been dropped from the line up brochure. As far as firmware upgrades I would like the ISO upgraded to include the new ISO 80 and the info button upgraded to allow me to make a choice about what I want it to activate such as ISO, exposure compensation and etc. I would also like to hear from Leica about future repair and know that my M8 will be working years from now because I can have maintenance and repair done on it. As a potential future investor in an M9, or whatever incarnation of Leica is available, it is a small move on their part to insure that they maintain product loyalty to those of us who have made long term investments in their products over the years.

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I expect Leica will make clear on Wed. what the future course of the M8 is. Remember that we have seen the brochure before Leica's intended date, therefore Leica probably planned to have made an announcement prior to people noticing the M8 was gone from the brochure.

 

I am sorry, but any statement involving "investing" in a camera (except for a working pro) is in and of itself naïve. "Investing" means the active diverting of resources away from current consumption to a asset that will deliver financial returns. Buying a camera is the epitome of "current consumption."

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As it should be obvious that the M8 is a 'professional' camera, at least in legal terms, Leica has the obligation to keep the M8 servicable for 10 years after the last M8 is sold, or pay for the damage incurred. This is standard professional equipment practice as far as I am aware.

 

We recently asked Philips whether they would guarantee service for a Windows 2000 based system they were offering for our (old and decrepit) SEM. The representative nearly had a fit, stating that they had an obligation to keep us up and running for 10 years after the sale was done.

 

So Leica will keep the M8 alive and well until 2019. After that, who knows......

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There's an old American joke:

Q: How can you tell if a salesman is lying?

A: His lips are moving.

 

When a company has integrity, people don't tell this joke about them. Yes, Leica is a corporation and not a charity. But I would hope that it is a corporation with integrity, which it has indeed been in the past.

 

I bought the M8 because I wanted a way to use my Leica-mount lenses digitally. I also waited half a year after the release because I wanted to see how the camera actually behaved in the field. This forum and the LUG were very helpful. As a result, I bought the M8 with my eyes wide open, knowing most of the strengths and the problems.

 

I didn't expect that the M8 would be upgradable and repairable forever. However, I did and do expect that when Leica says, in effect: "We will repair this camera for about 20 years, subject to the availability of parts," that they will honor that.

 

Suppose that after 4 or 5 years, my M8 shutter failed, and Leica said, "I'm sorry, but we can't repair your camera because the M8 shutter is no longer available, and we only have M9 shutters, which won't work in your M8. How would you like to buy a nice, new M9?" At that point, I'd be very angry.

 

Now suppose the same thing happened after 12 years? Oh, well, that's life. And if Leica said, "Yes, we thought we could repair it for this long, but we can't, so how about a nice discount on the M9," then I'd think very highly of Leica.

 

What's troubling is that even after the 4-year scenario above, some people in this forum would accuse me of whining (whinging), or of being stupid for believing the company's statements about repairability of a $5000 camera.

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Of course: sensible, realistic upgrades. That's what I said.

 

In short, I bought my M8 partly on the understanding it would be supported by an upgrade programme. Leica made a right song and dance about it at the time.

 

The first (and only!) round of upgrades were fairly priced - not cheap, but that was to be expected. Then, Leica repriced the upgrades to ludicrous levels (up to 50%!) - 1000 euros just for replacing the frameline masks! Those pricing levels have no connection with reality, and are not explainable by the impact of the recession on currency: obviously done to kill of the upgrade scheme, or at least make it very unattractive.

 

There's no way anyone unless on a very good salary can justify spending that sort of money on framelines - there's food to buy and bills to pay.

 

And its about honour too - some of you seem to consider that breaking one's word is fine. Not in my book.

 

 

And that is why I never upgraded the frame lines on my M8. I'm still ticked off at Leica for that, it was a pretty crappy move on their part and doesn't say much about their concern for customers. At the end of the day we are all $$$$ to Leica which wouldn't be so bad if you got something of equal value in return.

Edited by wilfredo

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As far as firmware upgrades I would like the ISO upgraded to include the new ISO 80 .

 

That may not be possible with the sensor in the M8

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I think that when Leica made that promise they believed that they had found a new way in the digital era. Doing something very Leica and different. They believed that the M8 was the perfect form for a DRF camera. New electronics would be smaller, batteries would get smaller, the body was large enough to accommodate a FF sensor, the RF and lens mount could all stay the same. Thus we come down to replacing the electronics and outwardly keeping the same camera. And in fact apart from a small revision to the top plate the M9 body is the same as the M8

 

The problem was that the dealers made nothing on upgrades and would suffer a severe loss in income.

 

Actually I dont see why M9 electronics and innards cant be fitted into the M8 body. Just a blanking plate where the battery indicator is. No need to change the top plate or the RF (apart from the framelines). All doable. Why waste perfectly good mechanical parts?

 

Jeff

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I didn't expect that the M8 would be upgradable and repairable forever. However, I did and do expect that when Leica says, in effect: "We will repair this camera for about 20 years, subject to the availability of parts," that they will honor that.

That's my hope as well. If that doesn't happen I will pass my lenses along to my son and hope that he can afford whatever is current then.

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Leica do have a track record of abandonment - which of their current lenses are available in LTM mount?

 

 

Yep, imagine that. I couldn't get my M2 upgraded to an M4. I couldn't get my M4 upgraded to an M5. I couldn't get my M6 upgraded to an M7. Can't get most of the new ASPHs in LTM.

 

With respect, I never bought the upgrade idea for the M8. No one else was doing it - it didn't seem very likely...ymmv...

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Guest darkstar2004

 

Leica makes beautiful glass, but both Zeiss and Voigtlander have shown that equal or better products are possible at a considerably lower price.

 

 

Zeiss & Voigtlander lenses are equal to or better than Leica's best lenses??

 

Surely you jest...

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Leica do have a track record of abandonment - which of their current lenses are available in LTM mount?

 

I don't know if it's still the case, but not too long ago they'd produce a lens in LTM provided you ordered enough of them - the figure of 1000 units comes to hand.

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Of course: sensible, realistic upgrades. That's what I said.

 

In short, I bought my M8 partly on the understanding it would be supported by an upgrade programme. Leica made a right song and dance about it at the time.

 

The first (and only!) round of upgrades were fairly priced - not cheap, but that was to be expected. Then, Leica repriced the upgrades to ludicrous levels (up to 50%!) - 1000 euros just for replacing the frameline masks! Those pricing levels have no connection with reality, and are not explainable by the impact of the recession on currency: obviously done to kill of the upgrade scheme, or at least make it very unattractive.

 

There's no way anyone unless on a very good salary can justify spending that sort of money on framelines - there's food to buy and bills to pay.

 

And its about honour too - some of you seem to consider that breaking one's word is fine. Not in my book.

Time for a quick fact check:

1. Leica have implemented upgrades that bring the original camera to the level of the latest and last camera of the 8 series

2. Any camera that goes into CS for more than minor work gets electronically upgraded to the newest level -for free

3 Any camera that goes into CS for more than minor work gets a years guarantee -not on the work, but on the whole camera

4. Leica has pledged long-term support for the camera

5. There are very strong indications that Leica is working on an upgrade of the firmware.

 

Errr... What was that question again?

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Of course: sensible, realistic upgrades. That's what I said.

 

In short, I bought my M8 partly on the understanding it would be supported by an upgrade programme. Leica made a right song and dance about it at the time.

 

The first (and only!) round of upgrades were fairly priced - not cheap, but that was to be expected. Then, Leica repriced the upgrades to ludicrous levels (up to 50%!) - 1000 euros just for replacing the frameline masks! Those pricing levels have no connection with reality, and are not explainable by the impact of the recession on currency: obviously done to kill of the upgrade scheme, or at least make it very unattractive.

 

There's no way anyone unless on a very good salary can justify spending that sort of money on framelines - there's food to buy and bills to pay.

 

And its about honour too - some of you seem to consider that breaking one's word is fine. Not in my book.

 

Just try to look at it this way:

 

I was thinking of the upgrade for the M8 last December. Then the price increase came, and I didn't like it any more. I took the spare money and some more(

) to spend it on the 50 Summilux Asph.. This doesn't need any upgrade and I can hope to use it still when all upgrades are long forgotten.

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Zeiss & Voigtlander lenses are equal to or better than Leica's best lenses??

 

Surely you jest...

 

No, Leica makes great glass, been using it for 45+ years, but especially the new Zeiss lens can certainly hold their own. And are strong competitors. What's wrong with having choices like that?

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