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Have Leica Abandoned The M8?

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in my opinion they should also assure those of us who choose to stay with the M8 that we will not suddenly find we have an obsolete, unrepairable un-upgradeable, abandoned camera. What are your thoughts?

 

The infinite upgrades was the issue over which Stephen K. Lee got fired, as far as is known. It is a promise which no one can keep, and Leica has aligned themselves with every other manufacturer out there in simply phasing the old out when the new arrives. No surprise there. Service and warranty will of course be honoured for a long time.

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To quote an old movie, "the best way to go broke is to get an ever increasing share of a shrinking market"

 

The M9 looks like an exciting camera, but I won't be able to buy one, and neither will any of my students.Where will Leica get a new base of customers? Sometimes it seems like they are following the course of military contractors, building ever more expensive systems until they reach the point that no one can afford them.

 

Leica makes a beautiful camera, but Nikon and Canon offer a far more possibilities, and a number of paths to bring a new photographer into the system.

 

Leica makes beautiful glass, but both Zeiss and Voigtlander have shown that equal or better products are possible at a considerably lower price.

 

Without the M8, Leica will loose a large number of young beginners who have historically formed the beginning base of its most loyal fans.

 

The M9 and S2 seem to be excellent products, time will tell, but on its present path Leica will be selling fewer and fewer more and more expensive cameras to a smaller and smaller group.

 

I hope smarter heads prevail and the folks at Solms maintain a commitment to the M8 family. Take a lesson from Nikon and provide more than a single path into the system (D700-D3-D3x) .

 

Otherwise, anyone seen a Deardorff lately?

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The infinite upgrades was the issue over which Stephen K. Lee got fired, as far as is known. It is a promise which no one can keep, and Leica has aligned themselves with every other manufacturer out there in simply phasing the old out when the new arrives. No surprise there. Service and warranty will of course be honoured for a long time.

 

I can only agree with you.

 

The M8 was said to have many flaws and there was enough demand to abolish these flaws. When this demand is - perhaps only partially - fulfilled nobody can reasonably exspect that the old flaws are to be continued.

 

With a new M9 the M8 will not suddenly become a product worse than it was. Those who thought the flaws not so important will put up with it as long as it works.

 

The IIIg was produced some times after the M3 was introduced. But economics were different then. With regards to the actual situation of the market for photographic cameras we cannot exspect donations to customers at the expense of a producer struggling with staying on the market.

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....

Without the M8, Leica will lo

ose a large number of young beginners who have historically formed the beginning base of its most loyal fans.

 

The M9 and S2 seem to be excellent products, time will tell, but on its present path Leica will be selling fewer and fewer more and more expensive cameras to a smaller and smaller group.

 

I hope smarter heads prevail and the folks at Solms maintain a commitment to the M8 family. Take a lesson from Nikon and provide more than a single path into the system (D700-D3-D3x) .

...

 

Just make a suggestion for your price for a future M8:

 

2000€ oder 3000€?

 

Don't you think both figures will be regarded as totally overpriced for a product which is not up to present standards? Which amount of losses do you exspect Leica will accept on each M8 to take your lessons?

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M9- 6500 Euros, Nikon D3x- 5500 Euros, Nikon D700- 1400 Euros

 

Without some plan to replenish its user base, Leica will not survive.

 

The M9 will cost €5500, according to all believable sources. The D3x is selling quite well. Not everyone wants a 12MP D700 with few good current primes available, and in any case, the cheapest price in Germany is about €1950, as far as I can see?

Edited by carstenw

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M9- 6500 Euros, Nikon D3x- 5500 Euros, Nikon D700- 1400 Euros

 

Without some plan to replenish its user base, Leica will not survive.

 

I don't know where you get the 6500€ for the M9 from, but never mind.

 

Just imagine Leica would keep the M8 for 2000€ in it's portfolio- now it sells for about 3000,-€. I see no reason that Leica will make any profit on a price like this.

 

Your price for the Nikon D 700 would just kill it: full frame against crop; high iso against noise, no UV/IR issues against filters in front of the lenses.

 

Would you really buy a M8 for 2000€ for these options?

 

There have been - and I am sure there will be - enough people who paid considerably more for a Leica-M as for any other DSLR, as long as they could think: this is the best M I can get. I can see nobody who would go on this very narrow path just for the reason that he gets the second best M he can get. Times of IIIg are over.

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M9- 6500 Euros, Nikon D3x- 5500 Euros, Nikon D700- 1400 Euros

 

Without some plan to replenish its user base, Leica will not survive.

Not with this kind of disinformation- fortunately nonsense....

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M8 and M8.2 have gone. No upgrade. I'm happy with M8 and 28 Elmarit. Used to shoot CL +40 and M6 + 35. Effectively I am in between now. Hope to use my M8 for many years.

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Well the new model is on the showroom floor with some impressive specifications and high desirability but the new sales brochure is missing a model-the M8 line is no longer shown. A couple of years back (or maybe less) we M8 owners were assured that the M8, a camera many of us bought in to despite what many considered glaring deficiencies...

 

If you thought it had glaring deficiencies you shouldn't have bought it. Did people who bought Leica M5s expect Leica to give them an M6 or MP?

 

It's a tool. Just because somebody comes out with a better tool a couple of years after you bought your top of the line whatsit doesn't mean you get a new one.

 

Was this, "upgrade to the next M for x$$$" put in writing anywhere?

 

Didn't think so.

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Without the M8, Leica will loose a large number of young beginners who have historically formed the beginning base of its most loyal fans.

 

I don't think beginners have been buying Leica for fifty years, unless they had a rich and generous daddy.

 

Leica exists as a niche product, just like Ferrari. I don't see many kids buying Ferraris.

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If you thought it had glaring deficiencies you shouldn't have bought it. Did people who bought Leica M5s expect Leica to give them an M6 or MP?

 

It's a tool. Just because somebody comes out with a better tool a couple of years after you bought your top of the line whatsit doesn't mean you get a new one.

 

Was this, "upgrade to the next M for x$$$" put in writing anywhere?

 

Didn't think so.

Fashn you need to reload I didn't say I thought it had glaring deficiencies I was one of those who saw what others called deficiencies as strengths and continue to utilize them. All you had to do was be around when the M8 came out to have read the bad press it was getting unless you were living in a hole. I also didn't say I thought Leica should give me a new camera but based on the statement they made about it I do expect Leica to support it. Read things through before you pull the trigger and keep this post to some intelligent level because I hope Leica is listening to what some of its loyal M8 users are saying constructively here and it doesn't turn into a sniping contest.

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Leica users who bought into Stephen Lee's upgradeable for ever M8 concept need to accept the fact he lied.

Then unfortunately he lied for the company and I hope that isn't right.

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As for "disinformation" : "Just got off the phone with the old guy at Kurland Photo in NYC. He says the M9 will sell for between $8500 and $9000. He expects to have 9's for sale late October or early November."

$5935-$6285

This info may be wrong, we'll know on Wednesday, hopefully it will end up at the lower end.

 

No "disinformation" was meant.

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stovall,

 

While a romantic idea, the way technology is developing, its plainly impossible to continue maintaining one camera body for ever. I hate to say that they "lied", because I don't think they had a plan to deceive anyone. I just think that organic development out-grew the M8 box.

 

 

.

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I think it is more complex than "Stephen Lee lied." Stephen Lee may have made, in good faith, a commitment that his engineers knew would, in the long term, be unfeasable, and the sales people knew would PO the dealer network (who get nothing out of upgrades and prefer selling new cameras and used cameras). Ultimately the conflict between Lee's concept and harsh reality led to a blowup - and Lee was gone.

 

Even that is probably something of a simplification.

 

Lee did his own thing without always listening to, or working in concert with, the long-time pros at Leica - as Guy Mancuso reported from PMA 2008, the German Leica staff was apparently completely blindsided by Lee's declaration of an imminent fullframe camera to Amateur Photographer.

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