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Leica M9 + X1: Fake or real?


leica007

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Ad hominem and irrelevant. If the images are accurate, it doesn't matter what route they traveled through the world-wide web. If inaccurate, it doesn't matter whether they came from a resident of Vietnam, or Oskar-Barnackstrasse.

 

What on Earth makes my question ad hominiem? I really hope you are not insinuating some racist intent in my post - I would take a spectacularly dim view of that...

 

I really can't be arsed to look up how many miles it is from Solms to Hanoi (somewhere I have been, incidentally, which I suspect you have not) but my point is clear. What singles him out to be the bearer of this news when he is an AMATEUR who has previously posted FAKE images?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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What on Earth makes my question ad hominiem? I really hope you are not insinuating some racist intent in my post - I would take a spectacularly dim view of that...

 

I really can't be arsed to look up how many miles it is from Solms to Hanoi (somewhere I have been, incidentally, which I suspect you have not) but my point is clear. What singles him out to be the bearer of this news when he is an AMATEUR who has previously posted FAKE images?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

_________________

Bill Palmer (Gentleman Amateur and Leica Lout)

________________________________

FILM - a brand new sensor for every exposure...

Rangefound

12 of my best

Some of my images

 

What on earth happend to the Genteman part of you? ;)

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Sure - possible M9 bundled with Adobe Lightroom! Since we find already the profile for an M9 in CP1 4.8.2 ... I expect better fakes than that !

 

 

maybe because phase abandoned leica with the S2....i heard that was not a good situation....and LR really is the standard these days...

 

i don't see how leica can fit a ff sensor into a slightly taller body....oh, and just happen to find room for another battery as well?!....does not make much sense at all....

 

neither does the CEMOS sensor in the X1....

 

regardless.....it does not take much to come up with what the m9 will probably look like....and honestly i don't care if it is 2mm larger or 1cm taller....i want m8 quality at ff with all the other advantages a much newer sensor can offer (higher iso)...it still should be a ccd, so i don't expect miracles.....

 

the x1 (or whatever it will be called) is pretty much a given as well now that the panasonic was announced..along with an actual leica lens...they might as well have dropped the other news as well......that image looks like a non working mock up to me, but again, who cares about the actual details of the looks...we know the sensor from the panasonics....

 

price is the big suspense at this point....if the m9 will replace the m8 and come out at the same price point, it will be the best selling leica ever....they won't be able to make them fast enough....

 

i expect the price to be more in line with the top canon/nikon offerings....about 8000$ but would not be surprised (..ok i am just hoping:)...) if it stays at the 5500....

 

i just really hope that we won't see a second m8 release with all the problems....in this market that would not be good at all....

 

i pray that the IR issues are resolved.....

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Bill - ad hominem means an argument for or against something based on the personalities involved, rather than empirical fact. They are often derogatory - but it is not required. In fact there are 'inverse ad hominem" arguments - "This person is a friend of mine, therefore what she says must be true."

 

Ad hominem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

No - I don't think or mean to imply you're racist. But the location and previous fakes from this individual are irrelevent.

 

Come Sept. 9, either his pix will be proved correct, or they will be proved incorrect. If they are proved accurate, it really doesn't matter (so far as the pictures are concerned) if he murdered Mother Teresa - and if they are proved inaccurate, it really doesn't matter if he was Rudy Spiller using an alias.

Edited by adan
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maybe because phase abandoned leica with the S2....i heard that was not a good situation....and LR really is the standard these days...

 

Despite Leica and Phase gave up collaboration, CP1 is continued to be shipped with Leica Cameras - at least as far as I know it has been made explicit, that there will be no change.

 

Probably Lightroom is the standard - but CP1 brings far better results, if you ask me. Preserving the Leica touch of pictures. I was disappointed by Lightroom results - they look flat to me.

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Come Sept. 9, either his pix will be proved correct, or they will be proved incorrect. If they are proved accurate, it really doesn't matter (so far as the pictures are concerned) if he murdered Mother Teresa - and if they are proved inaccurate, it really doesn't matter if he was Rudy Spiller using an alias.

 

Damn. Sounds like Schrodinger's cat got out of the bag (or box)! Sorry, as you gentlemen were... :D

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Who's this "we"....????? Don't involve me in your unlawful activity!

 

"acknowledging our source" is still breaking somebody's copyright. That's a bit like running off from the shop saying "I stole it from Smiths!".

 

Just because something is on the internet does not mean it is copyright-free.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Hey, man, what are you talking about? 'unlawful activity' ? the excitement of M9 might be driving us crazy, but that doesn't mean we lose our sense of propriety. The photos were up on Flickr - which is a common knowledge by now - under the 'creative commons' agreement, hence there's no 'infringement' of any rights. [by the way, 'we' have made the leica rumor guy remove the watermark from the photos - read the comments there and you will get a clue]

 

'we' refers to 'us' behind the laptop. you need to know no more than this. :cool:

 

and your accusation/questioning the audacity of a Vietnamese guy uploading Leica - [OMG L-E-I-C-A , how dare these napalm surving kids touch this sacred European totem]- photos, verges on, should 'we' say, 'racism' ?

Edited by leica007
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QUOTE

"So.

 

Nobody has yet provided a sensible explanation to a small but inconvenient observation...

 

What is an otherwise unremarkable Viet amateur photographer living in Hanoi doing with "photos" of Leica's newest products?

 

If you actually bother to check out his Flickr stream you will find a number of images of mocked up and outright fake M9s, D-Lux 5s, etc., some more convincing than others.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

__________________

Bill Palmer (Gentleman Amateur and Leica Lout)"

UNQUOTE

 

Viet Nam Generation Announcements V5 N1-4, Part 1

 

Letter from Steven Geiger

 

First I would like to say I'm happy to be a new subscriber, but I must comment on your editorial policy announced in the Spring issue: that being the use of the term "Viets" to describe the Vietnamese people. (...)

 

You say that you are basing this decision on the Vietnamese term, and their politeness hasn't allowed them to correct our error. This seems like adequate justification. Nevertheless, your readership is Western and to my Western eye Viets smacks of a diminution of a much more expressive word, "Vietnamese." Ironically, you also mention the reason we have not been corrected by the Vietnamese is their opinion of Western intelligence.

 

If this is true, I would suggest the usage of "Viets" is damaging because to the Western eye it is painfully close to Western racist slang for another Asian people-- "Japs," and I'm sure they recognize any approximation of that term as unfortunate and to be avoided. I would not presume to translate for the Vietnamese but for that similarity alone, even if it is grammatically correct, we should seek their advice in finding another word. I fear "Viets" would be usurped as a racist term and we have far too many already.

 

Perhaps it is my guilt as a veteran that I need further reassurance, but I would like to see further discussion from Vietnamese ("Viet," if you like) linguists and writers, before we Westerners take further spontaneous liberties with the culture of the people of Viet Nam. We've done enough already.

 

Sincerely, Steven E. Geiger, 100 Overlook Terr., #513, New York, NY 10040.

Edited by nugat
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Despite Leica and Phase gave up collaboration, CP1 is continued to be shipped with Leica Cameras - at least as far as I know it has been made explicit, that there will be no change.

 

Probably Lightroom is the standard - but CP1 brings far better results, if you ask me. Preserving the Leica touch of pictures. I was disappointed by Lightroom results - they look flat to me.

 

i own and use LR, aperture and C1 (since my first phase back)...and i was never really happy with any adobe conversions.....nowadays i almost exclusively use aperture....i am glad we have all these excellent choices and everybody likes to cook their own files....

 

i only wanted to say that i think the rift is pretty deep and i would be surprised to still see any phase products with the new leicas....and since all leicas shoot dng anyway, it really does not matter.....the S2 will not ship with c1 afaik

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There's no racism in Bill's post

 

He was merely questionning why these images, real or not, would come from someone in Vietnam, given that Leica are based in Germany.

 

If they are real, then it's interesting to speculate on how they came out of Vietnam not Europe.

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I agree too. Looks like someone has made the top plate out of a magnet and tossed the body in a plastic bag with some steel dials, leaving them to stick where they land

 

the black and "titanium" isn't a good look either and the front of the lens looks cheap

 

as a digital CM, if this is anything like close, it's not inherited any of its Daddy's good looks :D And, where's the viewfinder...?

 

I can accept the M9 image as being "real", but this X-1 just doesn't smell right to me

 

 

True, but there's a rumour - rumour! - of dull chrome grey finish, different from the earlier silvery chrome finish. we shall see the real beast on 999.

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*sigh*

 

I shall type this slowly, so that it penetrates...

 

The photos were up on Flickr - which is a common knowledge by now - under the 'creative commons' agreement, hence there's no 'infringement' of any rights.

 

1. Not all content on Flickr is covered by "creative commons". Stop trying to justify your theft.

 

'we' refers to 'us' behind the laptop. you need to know no more than this. :cool:

 

2. Speak for yourself. Personally, I would not wish anyone to think I had anything whatsoever to do with you or your actions.

 

and your accusation/questioning the audacity of a Vietnamese guy uploading Leica - [OMG L-E-I-C-A , how dare these napalm surving kids touch this sacred European totem]- photos, verges on, should 'we' say, 'racism' ?

 

3. I made no "accusation". I don't give a flying fart if he hails from Vietnam, Iceland, Patagonia or Tasmania. The point is that it is simply not credible that an amateur photographer thousands of miles from Solms with a past track record of posting fakes is in possession of a genuine "scoop".

 

Andy Piper is right - time will tell. In the meantime keep your sweeping generalisations, illegal activities and accusations to yourself, "man".

 

Bill

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Letter from Steven Geiger

 

Wibble...

 

Sincerely, Steven E. Geiger, 100 Overlook Terr., #513, New York, NY 10040.

 

1. I have spent time in Hanoi. The people I lived and worked with there referred to themselves as "Viet(s)".

 

2. I don't carry the guilt associated with the "Great American War" - your citation is irrelevant.

 

Beyond those points, I continue to ask. Why should an amateur photographer with a track record of displaying fakes and mock-ups, living in a country thousands of miles from Solms have the real article?

 

Bill

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Beyond those points, I continue to ask. Why should an amateur photographer with a track record of displaying fakes and mock-ups, living in a country thousands of miles from Solms have the real article?

 

Bill

 

supplier, Leica marketing partner, member of a network of websites spreading rumours...

 

There are many possibilities. The internet world is small and it doesn't matter much where he comes from.

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Andy B. - sure, speculation - the guy in Vietnam has an emigrant brother working in a printing plant in Portugal, Germany or France, who snagged some pix from the pdfs of Leica's new brochures while they were in progress. etc. etc.

 

I don't think the "X-1" is a fake photo, I think it is a real photo of a wooden mockup. The first images leaked of the GF-1, from a Panny internal memo, were obviously still partly mockups ("engraving" done with Dymo labels and so on) - but they depicted a real camera in progress, as we now know. Leica has done lots of mockups over the years - "M3" with the viewfinder centered over the lens, Leicaflex with a removable prism, etc. Not everything mocked up gets to market, or even prototype.

 

I'd say the X1 is still in a quantum superposition state, until we observe it 9/9 (to continue the Schrödinger theme).

 

Bill: agreed as to copyright - you can't put a picture belonging to someone else up on flickr and claim that "creative commons" applies. If you don't own the rights, you don't have the right to give them away.

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