Processing mistake?

[wide.angle]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I just processed my first two rolls of film, and, though there are exposures on the film, the sprocket areas of my negative are uniformly gray where they are supposed to be just a clear base. So I'm trying to make sure I understand what I did wrong. (My best guess is either over or under processing) Any ideas? If processing is the culprit, is it possible to additionally process it in some way to at least partly fix the error?

 

Thanks in advance.

[john_r_smith]

Well, I assume this is B/W film we are talking about. Hard to believe that you could have slightly fogged the whole film, but I'll ask the obvious - was your changing bag or darkroom absolutely light-tight when you loaded the film onto the spiral? Modern high-speed emulsions will fog from the tiniest exposure to light, which can really catch you out if you are only used to printing paper. Other than that, we are talking about a developer or fixer issue. What was the film/developer/time/temperature combination?

 

John

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[wide.angle]

Yes, B/W film, Ilford HP5+ processed for 800 iso. I thought about fogging, but the gray is uniform across both sides of both rolls that I processed together. I sat in the closet checking for light for 20 minutes and never saw anything so I assume there was no light (and if there was it seems the gray would not be uniform).

 

I had just mixed my chemicals (i'm impatient). Used D76, mixed with water (source is tap water from lake michigan) according to directions.

 

Processed the film at 74 deg F for 8 minutes using D76 stock (not further dilluted).

[john_r_smith]

Loading sounds OK. As you say, light fogging would probably be streaky. I assume that you are comparing your home-brewed HP5 with some you already have from a lab and know to be correctly processed. D76 should be fine, time adjusted for temperature. How about agitation (clutching at straws). How long did you fix? Agitation while fixing?

 

John

[wide.angle]

i have no lab film to compare to, but seems the sproket area should have no exposure, and as such should be clear... instead it is almost a medium gray.

 

fixed for 3 (or more minutes) using kodak's stock fixer, also mixed package with one gallon of water, and used fixer undilluted.

 

Agitation was same for all (develop and fix), four complete inversions gently made each minute.

 

I was using a new thermometer, maybe it is off, if so, would developing for too little time or too much time have this effect?

[john_r_smith]

OK. What you can do -

 

using exactly the same chemicals and processing method, to check what's going on -

 

Pull six inches HP5 from the cassette in strong daylight to expose it. Then load a clip of (say) twelve inches from the same cassete and process that. Thus you have six inches exposed, six inches unexposed. When processed, the exposed part should be totally black, the unexposed part should be completely clear. A useful check, and you lose 10 frames of film.

 

John

[topoxforddoc]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Scott,

 

Is it all uniformly murky and grey - both the frame and the edges? I wonder if you've fixed it properly and then washed it properly. If the edges are grey as well (as opposed to having black streaks), then I would look at the fixer. are the letters at the edges ie Ilford HP5+ and the frame numbers well developed and black?

 

Best wishes,

 

Charlie

[wide.angle]

charlie, the frame numbers and letters are very black. No black streaks. I will look closer at the frame for the same grayness where it should be clear.

 

After developing, I dumped the developer out, then filled the canister 3 times with tap water and dumped each time as a stop bath (lid still on canister of course), then i filled with the kodak fixer, and fixed for at least 3 minutes (whatever ilford basic directions stated), agitating gently on each minute. Finally I poured the fixer out, and rinsed for 5 or more minutes under running tap water, then hung to dry.

[xjr]

RE-FIX films

[Lucklik]

 

I had just mixed my chemicals (i'm impatient). Used D76, mixed with water (source is tap water from lake michigan) according to directions.

 

It's been more then 20 years I used D76 soo I can be wrong but shouldn't D76 be mixed 24 hours before first use?

 

rgs

 

Luc

[andybarton]

Try using a proper stop bath next time, instead of just Lake Michigan's finest

 

I seriously doubt it's the thermometer

[stunsworth]

Try refixing as mentioned earlier. With freshly mixed fixer if necessary. Did you agitate the tank for the first 30 seconds or so when you poured in the fixer? Now long did you fix for?

[wide.angle]

Charlie, I checked the frames, all areas that should be clear have the same gray as the sprocket areas.

 

Luc, I didn't see anything regarding time to wait after mixing, but I was not patient. I used hot water 120 deg F or higher, to mix, then cooled the container in cold water back down to 74 so that I could use it. Maybe I should have waited.

 

Andy, I just used water instead of buying stop because I was told that using stop solution was a waste of money, maybe that is wrong.

 

Steve, I used the fixer for at least 3 minutes, turning the tank upside down 4 times right after pouring and again after each minute. You mentioned "refixing", is this possible or is the film as good as it will get now that it has dried?

 

I was basically just following the paper at Ilford's website re "Processing Your First Black and White Film", but using Kodak supplies.

[stunsworth]

Scott there's no problem in refixing. Of course you'll need to wash and then dry the negs again.

 

The fixing agitation you mention should be ok. A milky look to the negatives is typical of the effect you get when film is underfixed.

 

If you still have a piece of unexposed film from the end of the roll try cutting that off and seeing if it clears in the fixer.

[fotohuis]

http://ilford.com/html/us_english/pdf/Film%20Hobbyist.PDF

 

First guideline.

 

All powder developers should be stabilized for about more hours to precise the pH buffering.

This is fine tuning only. Not necessary for a first development but better for the reproducibility in the future.

 

Check your clearing time: A piece of (undeveloped) film in the fix and note down the time to clear the test strip of film.

HP5+ fix time: 2X the clearing time (minimum). 3 Minutes fix time is rather short.

Try to keep the whole process very close to 20 degrees C/68 F.

 

I think your problem is a too short fix time.

Refix, normal wash time, wetting agent and let it dry again. The problem should be solved then.

When possible use a stop bath: A more precise developing time, slightly less base fog and less pollution of your fix.

If necessary check your thermometer with another one. Within +/- 1 degree deviation it's no problem when using always the same one. The B&W film processing is important for reproducibility.

 

Succes with your next film!

 

Best regards,

 

Robert

[plexi]

Just so it`s clear(pun intended ) Hp5+ film base is quite gray, and you will not be able to make it totally clear. From your description, I suspect you have perfectly normal negatives...

With reasonably fresh fix, 3 minutes fixing is enough.

[fotohuis]

And: HP5+ has no clear layer. It's always a bit grey comparing to e.g. Fuji Acros 100 or Rollei PAN25, Rollei R3 and some other B&W films. Maybe you are searching for a failure which is not there.

 

Ps. I saw we had already an overlap in the forum communication.

[fotohuis]

I am not the only one who is still "thinking"

[Pablito]

Lots of good avice above. You need to determine if this is a fixing or fogging issue. One thing not mentioned yet - your tank. Paterson and other plastic tanks need to be assembled in the right sequence, for instance the plastic core in the Paterson tank must have the wide flange at the bottom. doing the reverse can cause a light leak. Also the funnel shaped lid can come untwisted and move out of place when you invert the tank to pour out the solutions - letting in light. Many fixers can clear film in 3 minutes but others cannot.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[topoxforddoc]

I use HP5 as my standard B+W stock (sometimes Tri-X). Sounds like fixer problem really. The edges are normally clear on HP5, not murky grey. Murky grey is usually fixer problem. My tuppence worth of non-expert opinion.

 

Charlie