elgenper Posted August 22, 2009 Share #21 Posted August 22, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Didn't somebody already try that? Well, sort of.... http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/95748-leica-m9-ff-mock-up.html#post1004196 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 22, 2009 Posted August 22, 2009 Hi elgenper, Take a look here More rumors: Apparently, M9 is not the only camera to be announced on 09/09?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
elgenper Posted August 22, 2009 Share #22 Posted August 22, 2009 What were those things called that fitted on M cameras to turn them into a clunky SLR look-a-like, Visoflex or something?It's one of them for the M8!... Well, why not, indeed? An EVF Visoflex should work, even at infinity (a moving-mirror one wouldn´t) (now I´ll REALLY get flamed.....). And, it wouldn´t really be much "clunkier" than a R9 with DMR mounted... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 22, 2009 Share #23 Posted August 22, 2009 An EVF Visoflex should work, even at infinity (a moving-mirror one wouldn´t) A couple of problems. Where would the EVF go, and how would the light get to it? It needs to be in the same plane as the sensor so it can't just be 'dangled' inside a new visioflex box. There is only a small difference between the flange to sensor distance of the M and R lenses - the R is 27.8mm, the R is 47mm. This is too small to fit any kind of mirror device to reflect light into the EVF. In view of the above I can't see that there'll be a solution for R users using an M body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted August 22, 2009 Share #24 Posted August 22, 2009 Well, why not, indeed? An EVF Visoflex should work, even at infinity (a moving-mirror one wouldn´t) (now I´ll REALLY get flamed.....). The lens register of the R is 47mm and that of the M is just under 28mm. That leaves 19mm for the EVF Visoflex, of which 6mm or maybe more would be occupied by the thickness of the housing, the flange of the M bayonet and the R mount. Please explain how it should work:o Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted August 22, 2009 Share #25 Posted August 22, 2009 A couple of problems. Where would the EVF go, and how would the light get to it? It needs to be in the same plane as the sensor so it can't just be 'dangled' inside a new visioflex box. There is only a small difference between the flange to sensor distance of the M and R lenses - the R is 27.8mm, the R is 47mm. This is too small to fit any kind of mirror device to reflect light into the EVF. In view of the above I can't see that there'll be a solution for R users using an M body. Well, I took it for granted that the "EVisoFlex" would get, and use, the signal from the camera´s own sensor, iow being just a glorified R-to-M adapter with (hopefully) stop-down actuation, and the EVF piggybacking in a convenient way. If releases were in fact coordinated by Leica, the presumed new M9 could easily have contacts for the EVF info. I see now that the cited post talks about "M8"; missed that part.... But a M9 could work. Anyhow, just speculations from all sides.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted August 22, 2009 Share #26 Posted August 22, 2009 Well, I took it for granted that the "EVisoFlex" would get, and use, the signal from the camera´s own sensor, iow being just a glorified R-to-M adapter with (hopefully) stop-down actuation, and the EVF piggybacking in a convenient way. If releases were in fact coordinated by Leica, the presumed new M9 could easily have contacts for the EVF info. I see now that the cited post talks about "M8"; missed that part.... But a M9 could work. Anyhow, just speculations from all sides.... That's effectively an M-ish camera with live view and a plug-in EVF. It needs a bit more magic to get the ROM information from the R lens to the M computers, and I get the impression that really good live view and EVF aren't practical with current CCD sensors and mechanical shutters. But it's what I'm half-expecting for a M10 that is also the "R-solution" (I mentioned this in a post a while back). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
artur5 Posted August 22, 2009 Share #27 Posted August 22, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Expect a M10 for the Photokina 201X ( replace X with 2,4,6,8 .. ) In the meantime, just to keep quite those annoying R ex-customers Leica will release a nice bundle composed of a classical M to R adapter plus an external viewfinder with rangefinder capabilities ( sort of mega-frankenfinder ) - will have frame lines for lenses from 135 to 600mm. ( for shorter focal lengths you'll be using the camera frames ) Perfect for action pictures - First, fit that bulky Apo-Summicron 180/2 to the M-R adapter and the whole thing into the M8. Then you look through the external viewfinder to compose, then use the external rangefinder to focus. Then translate that distance to the lens focus ring. Then check the exposure through camera's regular viewfinder.. Then shoot... er.. Damn, that nasty bird is miles away already ! . Wait a minute, ever heard of Canon to R adapters, or Leitax mounts for Nikon .? .. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted August 22, 2009 Share #28 Posted August 22, 2009 Certainly the most reliable source on the Internet Why don't we just wait till 090909., instead of starting the same thread over and again? I can't see that it is any of your business to dictate what others are going to discuss. If you don't like this discussion; stay out of it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caparobertsan Posted August 22, 2009 Share #29 Posted August 22, 2009 NEWS WILL BE: "Dear R-type camera user Leica team have come to the conclusion that there is no way we can compete with those high tech cameras from Japan, and we are regrettably ceasing productions and development of all R products. We recommend that you will use canon body + adopter with all of your r lenses if you wish to go digital. However, we will still provide service for all of your R equipment as long as possible. Thank you very much for your support. Leica R team":D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 22, 2009 Share #30 Posted August 22, 2009 That's effectively an M-ish camera with live view and a plug-in EVF. It needs a bit more magic to get the ROM information from the R lens to the M computers, and I get the impression that really good live view and EVF aren't practical with current CCD sensors and mechanical shutters. But it's what I'm half-expecting for a M10 that is also the "R-solution" (I mentioned this in a post a while back). I sure hope that my readership excuses themselves if a high tech Viso (based on EVF) does materialise .......gosh I am so lookig forward for 9 Sept for such a device which would if it happens be more valuable to M users than a FF M9. Think about it a M8 uses some of the best lenses in the world from 18 mm (actually 16mm if Tri Elmar is included) through to 135mm ...if these same lenses are considered as 24mm upwards (ie crop factor is comprehended) ...it performs the same as the FF camera at a much cheaper price. A high tech Viso "hopefully" opens up the M cameras to macro and telphoto lenses and assuming it is reasonably easy to use dramatically widens the market segment for Leica. I would go further....since most photos are taken in the range 24mm to 135mm why buy a DSLR.? In my view a DSLR is intimidating to subjects, it is bulky, heavier, noisier, takes longer to get the shot (due to stepping down an open aperture needed during focussing, and moving the mirror) and has less accuracy when focussing. The M has none of these defects BUT today it is not possible to enter the world of Macro or occassional Telephoto usage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 22, 2009 Share #31 Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) I can't see that it is any of your business to dictate what others are going to discuss. If you don't like this discussion; stay out of it! Calm down Olsen he's asking a question - and a reasonable question too IMHO. Edited August 22, 2009 by stunsworth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efftee Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share #32 Posted August 22, 2009 If another new camera is announced I'd expect it to be a P&S. D-Lux-5? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted August 22, 2009 Share #33 Posted August 22, 2009 I sure hope that my readership excuses themselves if a high tech Viso (based on EVF) does materialise .......gosh I am so lookig forward for 9 Sept for such a device which would if it happens be more valuable to M users than a FF M9. Only a CEO could fit so much optimism, ignorance and confusion into so few words. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_b Posted August 22, 2009 Share #34 Posted August 22, 2009 Perhaps as interesting as "when / if / what specification" the M9 may have, FF 18MB, etc. But at what price? When you see the list price of a Canon 1DsMIII at about UK£4,500 retail UK£8,500 list - how much will the 'eagerly awaited' M9 retail / be sold at? I just wonder if the M8.x will continue with its existing size sensor much at the current price for those who find its specification adequate - not much development effort needed just manufacturing costs, Canon produce a range of cameras with varying sensor sizes so they see this a viable product line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 22, 2009 Share #35 Posted August 22, 2009 I sure hope that my readership excuses themselves if a high tech Viso (based on EVF) does materialise .......gosh I am so lookig forward for 9 Sept for such a device It's not going to happen Frank... I tell you what. Why not get one of YOUR companies to make one? The M mount is out of patent, and I'm sure the tooling costs and development costs won't be too excessive for a man of your means. How many do you think you would have to sell, in order to make your R&D money back? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 22, 2009 Share #36 Posted August 22, 2009 Only a CEO could fit so much optimism, ignorance and confusion into so few words. John, I DO remain OPTIMISTIC. If I am right then I look forward to watching how many on this forum will move from ignorance and confusion to stating that it was obvious all along! That Solms have great engineers that can sieze the latest technology to Innovate and differentiate the M as a true system camera. Quite exciting stuff potentially .....Maybe Solms has a CEO and a team that have embraced the "Yes We Can" attitude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 22, 2009 Share #37 Posted August 22, 2009 (edited) John, I DO remain OPTIMISTIC. But do you remain ignorant and confused too? (Sorry, Frank, that was just too much of a gift. ) Edited August 22, 2009 by andybarton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 22, 2009 Share #38 Posted August 22, 2009 But do you remain ignorant and confused too? (Sorry, Frank, that was just too much of a gift. ) NO! I = Innovative! C= Can do! in my vocabulary. Sorry, Andy you really fell into that one! 9 Sept I hope will be another day of opportunity for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 22, 2009 Share #39 Posted August 22, 2009 It's not going to happen Frank... I tell you what. Why not get one of YOUR companies to make one? The M mount is out of patent, and I'm sure the tooling costs and development costs won't be too excessive for a man of your means. How many do you think you would have to sell, in order to make your R&D money back? Andy you need to understand that the ROI on the "EVF Viso device" needs to be seen in terms of: > The profit generated by selling the device on its own as a unit sale = "x" > The profit generated by selling the Lenses and bellows etc for Macro usage = "y" > The profit generated by selling various Telyt type telephoto lenses and zooms = "z" > The pull thru profit business due to selling more "M" bodies that would have gone to DSLR competitors, as "M" can now be positioned as a true system alternative. Essentially we are looking at Investment = R&D cost + product engineering cost + Tooling & capital costs + Marketing costs + Manuf. Setup Costs (WIP, Training, manuals, Testing costs) Return = x + y + z. ...which I think could be very significant. If I am wrong how else can 135M€uros of Leica Sales become 250M€uros which is what is needed according to Dr. Kaufmann ... FYI My view is that "z" is the really big number! , not "x" and many will buy into the concept because it is there if it is ever needed (ie some people will never buy the EVF unit but will feel they have a system camera, and not just a rangefinder) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adli Posted August 22, 2009 Share #40 Posted August 22, 2009 D-Lux-5? Carefull, you might start a rumor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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