Nicoleica Posted August 26, 2009 Share #181 Posted August 26, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I trust the conspiracy theory, and my girlfriend believes in the alien's existance: Stargate SG-1 put us together... but the M9 divide us. And all this time I have believed that the mark on my forehead was just an imprint of the accessory shoe! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 Hi Nicoleica, Take a look here More rumors: Apparently, M9 is not the only camera to be announced on 09/09?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
redbaron Posted August 26, 2009 Share #182 Posted August 26, 2009 Here's some help Bill. Frank, you constantly state that Leica should do this, that or the other. I personally believe you have an ulterior motive in writing this nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted August 26, 2009 Share #183 Posted August 26, 2009 I appreciate that there must be lots of people who are interested in talking about what Leica's business strategy and future product line-up should be. And they should probably apply for a job with Leica rather than wasting their precious time preaching to mere customers who have no say in Leica’s business decisions anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted August 26, 2009 Share #184 Posted August 26, 2009 I appreciate that there must be lots of people who are interested in talking about what Leica's business strategy and future product line-up should be. It would be great if those people started specific threads in the Customer Forum, instead of shoe-horning the discussion into threads that might once have contained something relevant to the original post. Thanks. Hear hear. Or in an Armchair-CEO specific sub-forum. Regards, Bill Totally agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 26, 2009 Share #185 Posted August 26, 2009 Hi Frank, This is getting a bit depressing: > Sensors and sourcing these (or developing in house which only the big guys can do) They are already with Kodak which is the current state-of-the-art sensor manufacturer . This is true however it is also the case that it is not quite that clear cut: > Leica Digital R Module was dropped due to insufficeient volumes for the sensor supplier and that caused the eventual demise of the "R" system. Hopefully S2 can drive higher volumes than the R digital back ...personally I think it cannot but maybe with M9 using the same sensor it has a chance (if this is the case) > Kodak do not have sufficient volumes with respect to building a CMOS sensor, which they only support for their printer activities...while Canon develop in house their own hi spec CMOS sensor. If CMOS eventually turns out to be the way to go, as it apparently is needed for Live view (as I understand it) then is this not a vulnerability ? > Is it not a risk to have such a crucial strategic part designed and made by others from the point of view of long term supply.? > How does leica get to enjoy ever decreasing prices of the sensor as Kodak go down the learning curve with no second source, and no in house capability. ? > Graphic chip set ...again you need to work closely with external suppliers if you do not have significant volumes and at 10KU per year I guess leica does not Yes, they have the maestro chip for the S2, presumably also with the next M generation . The Maestro chip set is being produced by Fujitsu....based on their Milbeau image processor and FR80 CPU and FRV (VLIW architecture). I agree that this is the only way forward for Leica which was involved in the design. The same questions apply as to the Kodak sensor...Mfg volumes if M9 does not use? and how to get lower prices going forward. > Micro Code, and internal software for JPEG / RAW, camera control etc....ditto Outsourced, this is standard practice . I agree . However if they had large volumes they can tailor architecture and microcode as Nokia did when choosing ARM architecture and TI DSP hardware. Actually I can think of many other examples but Leica does not have the mfg volumes today and they do not seem to be in the mode of levering the compact business towards the high end to achieve signifiacnt volumes. > Shutter mechanism....ditto . They use the industry standard Copal shutters I thought they have 2 shutters from different suppliers for the M8, M8.2 and a third (I guess) for S2. Certainly the M8.2 is supposedly significantly different to M8. also I note from Mark Norton's thread : http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/21331-anatomy-leica-m8.html that the M8 uses a Namiki shutter cocking motor from Japan but elsehwere I have read that they will use a swiss motor for S2 My point is that they game is won or lost on being able to drive volumes and take care of your own destiny ...How does Leica do that with a selection of shutters across a small volume set of models? > Battery ..ditto Batteries are from external suppliers and will increase in capacity keeping the same or smaller dimensions depending on design priorities. . Agreed and not critical to survival > Monitor that is viewable in different ambient light levels External suppier, use an ambient light sensor to auto-adjust the backlight. This is easy to implement, but not really essential if you have the LCD switched off - as many do. . Agreed > At a system level most high end (>£2K price for body) cameras would support: AutoFocus, Aperture Priority, Selective exposure metering, Very high ISO numbers, Telephoto and Macro capability and probably many other features Leica M's are desirable exactly because they do NOT have AF. Leica might consider launching an additional CMOS live view camera with EVF/live view for macro/telephoto that takes M lenses (and R), but it should not be called a M camera. It could be useful as a (cheap)backup when your M8/9 fails & for happy snapping. If it was < 1000 euro I would buy one. There is no obvious reason why it should be very expensive and it would even allow focus confirmation, selective exposure and all the other stuff you mention that I don't particularly want. It would als be useful as a lure to catch new clients that sooner or later will buy the high-end Mx. . I actually agree with you at a personal level. I am not a particular fan of AF etc but many people are. Further some pros that go back and forth between Canon 5DII etc and Leica M8 have commented that they now quite miss AF. I do believe that a camera in this price category should eventually at least offer the option to those that want it. So from my point of view 5 out of 6 questions are already ticked, and the 6th one is controversial as you surely must have figured out by now. I think Leica actually does know exactly what they are doing. Better than most. Hope that you are right...their growing losses 2007 to 2008 and low sales volume suggest that they have not yet convinced the buying public. I hope 09/09/09 will change all that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 26, 2009 Share #186 Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) This is true however it is also the case that it is not quite that clear cut:> Leica Digital R Module was dropped due to insufficeient volumes for the sensor supplier and that caused the eventual demise of the "R" system. . Sorry Frank, that is not true. Where did you hear that from? > Is it not a risk to have such a crucial strategic part designed and made by others from the point of view of long term supply.? Are you also now really suggesting that, rather than buy sensors from one of the world's leading sensor companies, they start making their own? Ditto, shutters. Seriously? On the assumption that Leica take up your sage advice, what part of the comapny are you interested in, when the fire sale that will inevitably happen takes place? Do you have an outlet lined up for their lenses? Or is it the sport optics division (which has none of these nasty 3rd party problems) that you have your eye on? Edited August 26, 2009 by andybarton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted August 26, 2009 Share #187 Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Perhaps all the armchair CEOs could get together in one forum where they can debate all their cooky ideas en mass. I'm sure they would enjoy their mass debate! Edited August 26, 2009 by redbaron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 26, 2009 Share #188 Posted August 26, 2009 Your words, Frank, exactly as written. Your interpretation. Your spin. Your fantasy world. Your problem. Bill Bill this is as quoted from 1st Qtr report: In the first quarter of the fiscal year research and development costs amounting to EUR 2,515k (previous year: EUR 4,668k) accrued. I guess it is clear who is spinning! I would add that this provoked considerable debate in the forum when it was announced as to how to intrepret the numbers but the overall fact is clear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Pope Posted August 26, 2009 Share #189 Posted August 26, 2009 The suggestion re putting "Armchair CEO" threads in the Customer Section is an excellent one, as all too often, useful threads elsewhere get hijacked. Spare a thought for the poor old Customer Section guys - what did they do to deserve a sudden influx of self-serving delusional finagling? What about creating not a 'Bad Bank' for toxic assets - as has been mooted for the debt-crippled financial sector - but a Bad Sub-Forum for ring-fencing toxic threads? An armchair will fit nicely in there and a would-be CEO should be able to get his feet up and feel right at home in no time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 26, 2009 Share #190 Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) Time to draw this discussion in this thread, to a close. Frank - I have started a new thread in the Customer Forum - for your ideas for the CEO of Leica. Any further CEO advice in this thread will be transfered. Thank you. Edited August 26, 2009 by andybarton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 26, 2009 Share #191 Posted August 26, 2009 More info on the 999 announcements....Police couple to marry on 9/9/9 | Metro.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 26, 2009 Share #192 Posted August 26, 2009 More info on the 999 announcements....Police couple to marry on 9/9/9 | Metro.co.uk ... good catch... pity the wedding photog surely can't use a camera announced same day... ... but maybe chance is that is a betatester... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted August 26, 2009 Share #193 Posted August 26, 2009 I actually agree with you at a personal level. I am not a particular fan of AF etc but many people are. Further some pros that go back and forth between Canon 5DII etc and Leica M8 have commented that they now quite miss AF. I do believe that a camera in this price category should eventually at least offer the option to those that want it. I generally agree with this. However, since autofocus will be measured against the existing competitors, I firmly believe that anything but an incredibly fast and accurate autofocus system would hurt Leica by discouraging potential new users as well as alienating existing ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 26, 2009 Share #194 Posted August 26, 2009 I generally agree with this. However, since autofocus will be measured against the existing competitors, I firmly believe that anything but an incredibly fast and accurate autofocus system would hurt Leica by discouraging potential new users as well as alienating existing ones. My point is that while many of us would not see AF as an absolute need...others expect this for a camera of this quality and price. Furthermore it could be useful in low light conditions if Leica could design an AF that is fast and works in low light. Given that they may have cracked the FF rangefinder a fast AF should be a walk in the park! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 26, 2009 Share #195 Posted August 26, 2009 http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/96178-advice-leica-ceo-thread.html#post1008447 Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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