PeterP Posted August 16, 2009 Share #21 Posted August 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Peter - have to agree there. Also re your comments on "waxy" 5D or 5D2 images. I've printed some of the images linked below - they all sing. I know it's silly to compare things on a computer screen - but I don't think any of these say "crappy digital"...Dino Saluzzi & Anja Lechner Marcin Wasilewski Trio 09_21_Hue-0013 Kordian I hope they say "photograph". Unless I go back to the exif I can't remember which camera I was using on a lot of these... Best... Chris, Very nice images! Underscores your point very well. Thanks for sharing these. Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 16, 2009 Posted August 16, 2009 Hi PeterP, Take a look here M8 - 5D Mark II. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ecar Posted August 16, 2009 Share #22 Posted August 16, 2009 I have to admit the 5DII clearly has the edge in low light. Saying otherwise would be silly. It's not a question of MP, it's just a matter of high-ISO performance provided by a more recent sensor. Yes, the Canon images are not always great out of the box, but a bit of processing gets you where you want in most instances, where the M8 sensor - even with a Lux or a Nocti wide open - would let you down. This should hopefully be fixed soon;) Having said that, when the light is acceptable, I'd rather use my M8 (90% of my photos in the last 6 months) than the 5DII... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share #23 Posted August 16, 2009 (edited) In my tests, I see increased detail from all of my lenses in the 5DII vs. the 5D. (Perhaps they have to be used on a tripod and stopped down somewhat for this to be apparent.) At f8 the 5DII and lowly 50mm 1.8 lens significantly out-resolved the 35 Summicon on an M8 and the same 50mm lens on the 5D. Shooting carefully controlled tests with various lenses wide open is something others will need to do. The 5DII brought a lot of improvements over the original model besides a higher pixel count... Better low light capability, better battery life, live view, movie mode, a much better LCD to the point that I hate trying to look at the original screen in bright light, dust shaker - which has worked very well for me, faster continuous shooting rate, micro focus adjustment, 98% viewfinder, some weather sealing, three sizes of raw files and lots more. This is pretty intriguing stuff, enough to make me want to upgrade. I can hardly believe that the Canon 50mm 1.8 on the 5DII out resolved the 35mm Summicron on the M8. I mostly use my M8 with a 35mm Summicron ASPH. I currently own two L series zoom lenses, and a Carl Zeiss 50mm 1.4 Plannar for the Canon. This last lens I purchased less than two months ago and is a jewel, a real find both for quality, build, performance and price. I absolutely love the lens and in IMHO compares favorably to a Leica lens. Edited August 16, 2009 by wilfredo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 16, 2009 Share #24 Posted August 16, 2009 If you ever consider a tilt/shift lens, then having live view would help with framing and focusing. I prefer the look of M8 files to any DSLR I've seen, but the latter provides some things that the Leica just can't. Depends on how you use the tools...one reason why this forum is so alive with debate over potential M9 features...what matters to one person may mean squat to another. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share #25 Posted August 16, 2009 I have to admit the 5DII clearly has the edge in low light...Having said that, when the light is acceptable, I'd rather use my M8 (90% of my photos in the last 6 months) than the 5DII... I sometimes shoot in low light church settings and the M8 has been wonderful for this, because it is very lite. Being lite allows for hand held exposures say at 1/15 or 1/30 with good results, meaning very little camera shake. With my current 5D this is not possible. The new low noise high ISO on the Mark II which would allow a faster shutter speed in low light situations would be most welcomed! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 16, 2009 Author Share #26 Posted August 16, 2009 Jeff, I have to admit that I too prefer the look of the M8 files to any DSLR, I would like to see more 5D Mark II files, especially B&W shots of people. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 16, 2009 Share #27 Posted August 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) BTW, I was excluding the R series, with DMR, from my comparison:) Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick De Marco Posted August 16, 2009 Share #28 Posted August 16, 2009 Wilfredo, I upgraded to the 5D Mk II and think it is a fantastic camera, especially for high ISOs - one of the reasons I never got on too well with the M8 (which I sold in part to pay for the 5D2). People are right to say it depends on the lenses. I have a number of Canon L lenses of varying quality but the 135mm f2 L, and especially the 35mm f1.2 L are my favourite and are truly great lenses. Apart from that I like to use 3rd party lenses on the 5D2 and have used many. My favourite are the Leica Summicron 50mm f2 (Ithe best of all my Leica R lenses for the 5D2), the Contax 85mm f1.4, Contax 50mm f1.4 and Contax 18mm f4 (if anything better than the Leica lenses and certainly I prefer them to the Canon Ls in similar ranges), the new Zeiss for Nikon (with adapter) 25mm f2.8 with macro and the very pleasing and cheap Olympus Zuiko 50mm f1.8. The live view feature on the 5D2 is very useful, with its 10x magnification, for manual focus lenses. Whilst I rarely regret selling the M8 (I prefer the ergonomics of the Leica, its size and the lenses, but I just don't think it performs as well as a digital camera, ie. the sensor quality, high noise, battery life and its ability to freeze when you need it) I still prefer to use my Leica film and other rangefinders. For me an M6 and 5D2 are the two perfect cameras, but I like the M6 more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 17, 2009 Author Share #29 Posted August 17, 2009 (edited) Wilfredo, I upgraded to the 5D Mk II and think it is a fantastic camera, especially for high ISOs - one of the reasons I never got on too well with the M8 (which I sold in part to pay for the 5D2). People are right to say it depends on the lenses. I have a number of Canon L lenses of varying quality but the 135mm f2 L, and especially the 35mm f1.2 L are my favourite and are truly great lenses. Apart from that I like to use 3rd party lenses on the 5D2 and have used many. My favourite are the Leica Summicron 50mm f2 (Ithe best of all my Leica R lenses for the 5D2), the Contax 85mm f1.4, Contax 50mm f1.4 and Contax 18mm f4 (if anything better than the Leica lenses and certainly I prefer them to the Canon Ls in similar ranges), the new Zeiss for Nikon (with adapter) 25mm f2.8 with macro and the very pleasing and cheap Olympus Zuiko 50mm f1.8. The live view feature on the 5D2 is very useful, with its 10x magnification, for manual focus lenses. Whilst I rarely regret selling the M8 (I prefer the ergonomics of the Leica, its size and the lenses, but I just don't think it performs as well as a digital camera, ie. the sensor quality, high noise, battery life and its ability to freeze when you need it) I still prefer to use my Leica film and other rangefinders. For me an M6 and 5D2 are the two perfect cameras, but I like the M6 more. I suspect that those who were hoping for Leica to produce an R10 DSLR might find the new 5D II to be a great consolation prize. I myself was hoping for an R10. BTW I placed an order for the new Canon and it is back-ordered everywhere. Demand for this camera is obviously very very high. It really is too bad that Leica chose not to be a player in this arena. I don't have any R lenses at this time, but I will be looking to add something to my collection in the future. Edited August 17, 2009 by wilfredo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 17, 2009 Share #30 Posted August 17, 2009 I don't have any R lenses at this time, but I will be looking to add something to my collection in the future. Sounds like you're already invested in Canon, so this might be moot, but I think the Nikons retain more camera functions (e.g., auto-aperture stop down) with outside brand lenses (R, Zeiss, etc) than the Canons. Jamie Roberts, in particular, has written about his experiences using R glass on his D700. And, Sean has some good info on his site. If you're considering a camera switch anyway, and looking to invest in additional glass, I thought I'd at least offer this as consideration. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 17, 2009 Share #31 Posted August 17, 2009 Jeff, you still need to use manual stop down metering with R lenses used on Nikon bodies - and of course you need to change the mount, something that isn't needed when R lenses are used on an EOS camera. After saying that I know that Andy Barton appears to be pleased so far with his converted R lenses on a Nikon dSLR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 17, 2009 Share #32 Posted August 17, 2009 Jeff, you still need to use manual stop down metering with R lenses used on Nikon bodies - and of course you need to change the mount, something that isn't needed when R lenses are used on an EOS camera. After saying that I know that Andy Barton appears to be pleased so far with his converted R lenses on a Nikon dSLR. Ok, thanks for the clarification. I should shut up when I don't know what I'm talking about....I hope not too many times a day. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share #33 Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) Jeff, I already have invested in Canon, I have five lenses for my current 5D, two of them L zoom lenses, and more recenly purchased a ZM 50mm 1.4 Plannar which is a truly wonderful lens. I can't wait to try it on the new 5D II. I'll be exploring the used market for a possible 80mm R lens. Edited August 18, 2009 by wilfredo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kschwarz Posted August 18, 2009 Share #34 Posted August 18, 2009 I believe the biggest improvement of the 5DMII over the original 5D is the automatic sensor cleaning system. This one feature makes the upgrade well worth the expense. I keep the 35 mm F1.4L on the camera most of the time, and the results are fabulous. That said, I love my Leica M-system. My hope is that the M9 includes an ultrasonic sensor cleaning system when it is released. This is not mentioned much in this forum, but not having to worry about clean digital images is a huge advantage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henning Posted August 18, 2009 Share #35 Posted August 18, 2009 I use M8's with a variety of lenses including all the Summiluxes except the 24, the WATE and MATE, 75 Summicron etc. I also use 5D's; both the original and the MkII. For those I have a variety of lenses as well, including 35/1.4, and the new 24TS-E II and the 17 TS-E as well as longer lenses. Each has its place. It's hard to say which has the higher image quality as I use them for different purposes. The new 24 and the 17 are amazingly good lenses, especially unshifted. I also have a 24/1.4, which is extremely poor in comparison to the 21 Summilux. So. For my own use, and on travels, I take the Leicas and a couple of lenses. If I am photography architecture for money, I take the Canons. In low light, I can focus the M8 better than the Canons can focus. I could get a 1DsMkIII, but that is huge and otherwise unnecessary. I also like the look of M8 files better in most cases, but I don't mind a bit of grain look. Both cameras produce files that are excellent for 11x14's, and the 5DMkII can go to 16x20 easily, but the difference isn't that great. In practice, even the low light performance isn't that much different. That's system difference. Handling etc and decent lens quality is more important. Choose what appeals. Now that Canon has shown that they _can_ make decent wide angles, there's no need to switch. BTW, I've tried a D3x, and the file quality is not a reason to choose the Canon or the Nikon. Now that Canon has the excellent new TS lenses, there's no reason to go there either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehouseflogger Posted August 18, 2009 Share #36 Posted August 18, 2009 There could be something a bit serious behind this - I was thinking about a post asking "What shoot? Which system?" I currently use M8u / M8.2 and 5D / 5D2, but I use them for different jobs. recent work which depended on the M8 include nearly all travel photography I do (Personal work), and a lot of documentary work for clients (King's Place - community outreach programme). However, I wouldn't want to be restricted to DRF for all circumstances. Although it's amazing how flexible the M8 is, it doesn't cover all the bases for me. I'd really have hated having to do some of the performance work that I carry out without the Canons - (e.g. Kordian or JULIA HÜLSMANN TRIO). While I will often mix the two systems (as in the ECM shoot - frequently carrying an M8 + 28 cron and a 5D + 85 1.2), there are also many occasions when not having a wide zoom or a reliable, autofocus telephoto would have been crippling (e.g. Wyzwolenie - próby) So - it's not a "which is better question" at all - but a "What shoot? / Which system". I'm planning two projects in September / October. One will be the documentation of a three day arts festival at King's Place in London (Kings Place Festival 2009 | Kings Place) when I'll be using the Canon's for concerts / spoken word work where I'm restricted to the back of the hall (probably using 300 L 2.8 and 70/200 L 2.8 most of the time) + Leica for close work during rehearsal / sound check. Another will be the documentation of the final stages of "As You Like It" at Teatr Polski in Warsaw - and again, the Leica will be there for the rehearsals, and the Canon's will come out when I'm shooting the performance mostly from a balcony... I'd be interested to hear how other people plan their work and what has proved to be essential kit. As a final note, looking back over exif, the key tools for me remain: Leica = 28 cron asph with 135 Apo Telyt a surprising contender for second place alongside the 75 cron asph DSLR (Canon) = 85 1.2 L (1st series) / 16-35 2.8 L / 70-200 2.8 L Best... Hello Chris and all, To respond to the quest above I will describe how I work with the two systems. I use an elmarit 24mm f2.8 on M8, L 35mm f1.4, L 85mm f1.2 and L 180 f2.8 on Eos 1dMkII bodies. No flash. Canon primes for bride getting slap on at home etc. M8 for church exterior and interior. Back to Canon for service. M8 for the love in outside the church afterwards. M8 and Canons for drinking and canape phase. M8 for the dreaded formals. Canon for the gruesome twosomes. M8 for the beginning of dinner. Canons later on as light diminishes. M8 in the periods when my shoulder starts hurting, or when I want a little bit of Leica thought therapy. Choice of system is governed by the following factors. Certainty of nailing the shot. Movement of subject. Light. Ease of movement/ not being seen. Relief of boredom or attitude of some guests (who left their pleasantness at home.) I wonder how I this will change when the M9 syarts having a go. Must go now and get the spare tyre changed and a new bulb for my wife's A4... Best wishes to all, Happy snapping! Guy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehouseflogger Posted August 18, 2009 Share #37 Posted August 18, 2009 see above Leica thought therapy, to be known as LTT. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 18, 2009 Share #38 Posted August 18, 2009 Back to Canon for service. And, I thought only M8 owners had this issue. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 18, 2009 Share #39 Posted August 18, 2009 I also use 5D's; both the original and the MkII. For those I have a variety of lenses as well, including...the new 24TS-E II and the 17 TS-E... I'm considering a camera to use TS lenses...thinking about 5D, 5D2 or Nikon D700. Do you use 5D2 for TS more than 5D because of live view capability to assist with focusing? What else might I consider between the two Canons for use with TS? Also, have you tried, or have any opinions regarding the 45 TSE compared to your 2 lenses (in terms of build, features, IQ, etc)? I want to use for outdoor shots and don't need the super wide lens. Thanks, Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehouseflogger Posted August 18, 2009 Share #40 Posted August 18, 2009 Well spotted Jeff! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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