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Funniest thing I have read for a long time.

 

Thanks Frank.

 

I can go and walk the dog with a broad grin.

 

 

PS - Surely, the whole point about a Noctilux is that you don't need to go to high ISOs. Unless you are a habitual bat-shooter.

 

Andy then I have two questions for you:

Question 1

Which is the worst M camera ...or are they all just marvellous?

Question 2

So what is wrong with a M8?

 

I agree about your Noctilux point (you do NOT need to use it at highest ISO setting in my experience) in fact a f1.4 Summilux is powerful in low light also....

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Question 1

Which is the worst M camera ...or are they all just marvellous?

 

This must be about the worst of them:

 

 

Question 2

So what is wrong with a M8?

Nothing by comparison.

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Andy then I have two questions for you:

Question 1

Which is the worst M camera ...or are they all just marvellous?

Question 2

So what is wrong with a M8?

 

I agree about your Noctilux point (you do NOT need to use it at highest ISO setting in my experience) in fact a f1.4 Summilux is powerful in low light also....

 

have you ever tried M4, M3?

 

m4 is amazing piece.. Even i dont like 0,72x vf, i cannot part with this still!

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Being an old bat myself, should I be concerned if I see an M8 with a Noctilux attached pointing at me?

 

it is nothing wrong to be batman or batwoman.. as we seen in movies

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Being an old bat myself, should I be concerned if I see an M8 with a Noctilux attached pointing at me?

 

Only if it happens in unflattering light!

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Guest BigSplash
have you ever tried M4, M3?

 

m4 is amazing piece.. Even i dont like 0,72x vf, i cannot part with this still!

 

The M4 was my first Leica and only Leica from 1973 to 1978 when I was in Milano (2 yrs) and Brasil (3 yrs) and I took a few thousand photos with it. I love the camera and still have it. The looks, balance and size is just right, and I became OK with the Leicameter MR also.

 

I have not tried the M2 or M3 although I do like their rugged look.s. I also have a M5 and M6.......I am not overly impressed with the M5 due to its size. I like the M6 very much and still use it quite a bit.

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Question 1

Which is the worst M camera ...or are they all just marvellous?

Question 2

So what is wrong with a M8?

A1 - all of them are cr@p, no autofocus:D

A2 - see A1

 

Joking apart the question is impossible to answer as it depends on your own expectations.

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I'm not a collector i've been using a 84's M6 since i started to take photo...and shot regularly and professionally with it nowadays.

 

It took me just 20 minutes to realize it was a "bad camera"... no need to test any further...

 

for "bad camera" i mean a camera which doesn't do the job it is supposed to...(for price range, history, reputation)

 

You can't convince an old Leica shooter , which is used to the quality of film shots pushed to 1600/3200 , that the M8 does the same... and we're talking about a 25 years older camera.

 

The 5mk2 does it!! It gives you the freedom you had with film...and in my opinion almost a close quality..

 

I also said that "i would be the first to throw the 5d2 from the balcony if the new M9 had the same sensor quality"....and very happy to spend a bounch of money...

 

let's hope....

 

ps No one wonders why all the old Leica addicted photographers didn't choose leica in the "digital shift"?

 

Salgado,Larry Towell, Pellegrin, Majoli, Alan Harvey and so on... were shooting Leica exclusively... but none of them uses leicas anymore...

 

Remember Salgado's hands posing for the M7 advertisements? i don't think i'd pose anymore for the M8.....

Leca had to ask Wim Wenders.... certainly not well known for his photographic skills..

 

I believe Leica has to regain these photographers attention if it wants people to believe there's still place for the M system in the digital era..

Edited by faffo99

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It took me just 20 minutes to realize it was a "bad camera"... no need to test any further...

Sounds like a very short evaluation time to me, too short....

 

for "bad camera" i mean a camera which doesn't do the job it is supposed to...(for price range, history, reputation)

It does, all camera's by definition do what they are suposed to do, even a Holga does what it is supposed to do.

 

You can't convince an old Leica shooter , which is used to the quality of film shots pushed to 1600/3200 , that the M8 does the same... and we're talking about a 25 years older camera.

Preconceptions are not a convincing argument for careful evaluation. Also I could not find any photo's on your website that seemed to require being pushed, most were daytime. (Great pictures by the way!) With the M8 1250 ISO is usable but not brilliant, 2500 ISO is a major headache but still usable if you know what you are doing. The same applies to film. Film really is not that good at high ISO.

 

The 5mk2 does it!! It gives you the freedom you had with film...and in my opinion almost a close quality..

OK if you are happy with it congratulations, I personally do not like how the noise reduction affects the files.

 

ps No one wonders why all the old Leica addicted photographers didn't choose leica in the "digital shift"?

In fact no. Most "old Leica addicted photographers" are dead, or addicted to film or both. Moreover it is a personal choice even when not dead. If I had been using a film Leica all my life I guess I would stick to that as well.

 

Salgado,Larry Towell, Pellegrin, Majoli, Alan Harvey and so on... were shooting Leica exclusively... but none of them uses leicas anymore...

Salgado uses pentax film SLRs nowadays, Towell uses Tri-X film, Majoli uses Olympus compacts, David Alan Harvey has an M8 - no idea if he actually uses it, so what is the point ...? Buying an expensive plane does not make me a luthier and vice-versa. 97.3% is what you can or cannot see, the rest might be equipment, or not.

Edited by SJP

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Guest BigSplash
I'm not a collector i've been using a 84's M6 since i started to take photo...and shot regularly and professionally with it nowadays.

 

It took me just 20 minutes to realize it was a "bad camera"... no need to test any further...

 

for "bad camera" i mean a camera which doesn't do the job it is supposed to...(for price range, history, reputation)

 

You can't convince an old Leica shooter , which is used to the quality of film shots pushed to 1600/3200 , that the M8 does the same... and we're talking about a 25 years older camera.

 

The 5mk2 does it!! It gives you the freedom you had with film...and in my opinion almost a close quality..

 

I also said that "i would be the first to throw the 5d2 from the balcony if the new M9 had the same sensor quality"....and very happy to spend a bounch of money...

 

let's hope....

 

ps No one wonders why all the old Leica addicted photographers didn't choose leica in the "digital shift"?

 

Salgado,Larry Towell, Pellegrin, Majoli, Alan Harvey and so on... were shooting Leica exclusively... but none of them uses leicas anymore...

 

Remember Salgado's hands posing for the M7 advertisements? i don't think i'd pose anymore for the M8.....

Leca had to ask Wim Wenders.... certainly not well known for his photographic skills..

 

I believe Leica has to regain these photographers attention if it wants people to believe there's still place for the M system in the digital era..

Hmm Interesting comments....

You say that the Kodak sensor is not as good as the Canon 5DII and basically that is your big gripe about the M8.......

> OK I accept that the pixel count is much less, but I would have thought that this is not such a big deal according to what I have read, or is it something else that you do not like with the sensor?

> I accept that the ISO range is much larger with the Canon, and I personally like the fact it goes lower in ISO values. Is the extended ISO range that you like with the Canon.

> If there are colour shifts on either sensor I guess Photoshop can fix as a batch?

 

I really do not see what is wrong with the Leica Sensor and actually everything else surely is better with the Leica M8 compared to the Canon, except AutoFocus. I would identify at least:.....size, noise of the mirror, silence of the Leica shutter, speed of a mirrorless mechanism, Leica lenses,

 

Frankly when I look at any modern DSLR and think what I have with the M8 I smile. In the days of film I could imagine buying a R3 size of camera as it was bigger but not huge.

 

I cannot imagine taking any modern DSLR for an afternoon out with two or three lenses The R8 & R9 were bulky, and the R lenses were bigger than the M equivalent.....same is true for the Canon and Nikon high end cameras. Is this not a consideration also?

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I'm a primarily low-iso shooter, and much prefer the M8 sensor over the 5D's. I currently have no reason or desire to test a 5DII.

 

Until later,

 

Clyde

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It took me just 20 minutes to realize it was a "bad camera"... no need to test any further...

Sounds like a very short evaluation time to me, too short....

 

for "bad camera" i mean a camera which doesn't do the job it is supposed to...(for price range, history, reputation)

It does, all camera's by definition do what they are suposed to do, even a Holga does what it is supposed to do.

 

You can't convince an old Leica shooter , which is used to the quality of film shots pushed to 1600/3200 , that the M8 does the same... and we're talking about a 25 years older camera.

Preconceptions are not a convincing argument for careful evaluation. Also I could not find any photo's on your website that seemed to require being pushed, most were daytime. (Great pictures by the way!) With the M8 1250 ISO is usable but not brilliant, 2500 ISO is a major headache but still usable if you know what you are doing. The same applies to film. Film really is not that good at high ISO.

 

The 5mk2 does it!! It gives you the freedom you had with film...and in my opinion almost a close quality..

OK if you are happy with it congratulations, I personally do not like how the noise reduction affects the files.

 

ps No one wonders why all the old Leica addicted photographers didn't choose leica in the "digital shift"?

In fact no. Most "old Leica addicted photographers" are dead, or addicted to film or both. Moreover it is a personal choice even when not dead. If I had been using a film Leica all my life I guess I would stick to that as well.

 

Salgado,Larry Towell, Pellegrin, Majoli, Alan Harvey and so on... were shooting Leica exclusively... but none of them uses leicas anymore...

Salgado uses pentax film SLRs nowadays, Towell uses Tri-X film, Majoli uses Olympus compacts, David Alan Harvey has an M8 - no idea if he actually uses it, so what is the point ...? Buying an expensive plane does not make me a luthier and vice-versa. 97.3% is what you can or cannot see, the rest might be equipment, or not.

 

 

1) ...for price range, history, reputation..the holga is a 5 $ camera...doesn't have leica's heritage of quality...that's what i meant for "it is supposed to do"

 

2) most of my pictures were done at 1600 and underdeveloped...no grain..

i tried to do the same with the m8....it seemed a cell phone...thanks i really appreciate your compliments.

 

3) yes the 5d2 is the best out there for me... with a 35mm...not very heavy..super fast...(for film shots no one will ever beat my M6)

 

4) the people i mentioned are alive and working...and used licas all their life..

 

5) salgado uses medium format for the genesis project but still stuck with the film M...majoli 5d, pellegrin 5d,alan harvey nikons...he has aleica just because leica gave him as a present...

 

 

the point here is... that most of the photographers who used leica for many years..should have been easily pushed to use leica digitals...

if that didn't happen...it must MEAN SOMETHING!

and the meaning is that the M8 was a total flop...and none of them would use it right now...

 

leica can't fail with the M9...otherwise it will definitely die...

 

these are just my two cents by the way... and i'd like to say that my heart was beating fast when i received the M8... then... it stopped..when i turned it on.

Edited by faffo99

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Raffaele,

 

You mention that you primarily use high ISO. So, I ask whether or not you loaded the current firmware before you tested the M8? If your M8 had an early version loaded, it may not have performed as well as one with the current version.

Edited by Nicoleica
Spelling oops.

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...The 5mk2 does it!! It gives you the freedom you had with film...and in my opinion almost a close quality...

Matter of tastes i guess. I don't like the waxy look of 5D2 jpegs personally. Human skins loose their pores and lips shine like chicken grease giving portraits a plasticky touch that i've never got with my gear (including the 5D) so far. I don't like the M8 for other reasons but in good light its jpegs are miles ahead the 5D2 from this viewpoint IMHO. Never tried RAW with the 5D2 though.

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@nicoleica, yes i loaded the last firmware before testing it .. i prepared myself weeks before i received the m8... and read all the threads, tricks etc... to be as much accurate as possible..

 

@ict, can't really tell i've never shot jpegs..i always shoot RAW..

 

we all know that leica lenses produce wonderful images, and we are all in love with them...

but for my experience it didn't happen on the M8...

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Matter of tastes i guess. I don't like the waxy look of 5D2 jpegs personally. Human skins loose their pores and lips shine like chicken grease giving portraits a plasticky touch that i've never got with my gear (including the 5D) so far. I don't like the M8 for other reasons but in good light its jpegs are miles ahead the 5D2 from this viewpoint IMHO. Never tried RAW with the 5D2 though.

 

This is just about the differences between Japanese and European (not specifically German, more like Italians ...

) engineering. Japanese engineers are constantly searching for the best compromise which will please as much people as possible and European engineers go straight ahead for extreme performance under given conditions.

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Guest malland

sdai, no, on the basis of having lived in Japan and having had a lot of experience with Japanese companies I can say that your statement on the differences does not at all reflect reality. Japanese engineers focus on the same types of things engineers elsewhere do, but there is a difference in approach, like elsewhere, depending on the purpose of the engineering: whether it's for open-ended R&D, more narrowly defined R&D, or more applied engineering for product or process design.

 

There will be greater differences in management approach than in engineering approach; and there can be greater differences in the approach to product design and development between Canon and Nikon — see a recent Thom Hogan article on the Nikon product road map —than between one of these and a Western company.

 

—Mitch/Potomac, MD

Wild Beasts of Botswana

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This must be about the worst of them:

 

That's the top plate from Larry Burrows' M3...

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