erl Posted August 2, 2009 Share #281 Posted August 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am differentiating between "bad choice" and "bad camera". Quite different meanings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Hi erl, Take a look here Let's have it out. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted August 2, 2009 Share #282 Posted August 2, 2009 ...Raffaele is totally free to state he dislikes the camera, but he declared it as a 'bad camera'. That is just not true by any stretch of, even your imagination... Agree Erl. I don't like the M8 either but i have never said it is a bad camera. Just the worst M ever made that's all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 2, 2009 Share #283 Posted August 2, 2009 Agree Erl. I don't like the M8 either but i have never said it is a bad camera. Just the worst M ever made that's all. Faffo said that he checked the camera for 20 minutes and concluded that the M8 was not for him..OK. Now you say that it is the worst M ever made. Nobody says why it is so bad. I like the M8 very much and see that it takes great pictures, while passing the Getty Images badge of approval for a Pro camera. Surely the M2 or M3 would be the worst as they did not have the range of viewfinder images and no integrated exposure meter. The M5 had these features but the size of the beast would get my vote as the worst, and I own one.. The M8 is smaller than a M5, has the classic lines of an M and the same look and feel. It is easier and faster to handle compared to any DSLR or SLR. It packs a hell of a lot of sophisticated electronics in a small volume. > Apart from full frame which we can argue about if it is truly needed what is wrong with the M8? I have read that the ISO range is limited but personally even with a Noctilux I have not needed to use ISO 2500 but I could see the need if you wanted to capture a wedding reception using only candle light. > The IR issue is annoying but with the correct UVIR filters the problem goes away > People talk about the noise of the sensor....I have not seen this even with shots at night. I'd love to know what is wrong with the M8? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 2, 2009 Share #284 Posted August 2, 2009 Surely the M2 or M3 would be the worst as they did not have the range of viewfinder images and no integrated exposure meter. Funniest thing I have read for a long time. Thanks Frank. I can go and walk the dog with a broad grin. PS - Surely, the whole point about a Noctilux is that you don't need to go to high ISOs. Unless you are a habitual bat-shooter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted August 2, 2009 Share #285 Posted August 2, 2009 (edited) Come on Gentleman behave, you're not allowed to criticise that illustrious M model. Otherwise you will be hounded and refered too as a troll. Lol. I beleive the M9 will be released some time this year... and in Australia the asking price will be around 11,000 dollars. It's about double the price of the Nikon D3 so it should be twice as good or you can buy Three (3) Canon 5D-II. Last week, one store in Melbourne had an M8 demo for around 4,000 Dollars, thats preety good as last year they were selling for nearly double that price. I also noticed S/H M7's are selling for higher prices then I paid for mine new four years ago, interesting. Though I am cross, I bought some more film last week, and they had the cheek to charge me an extra Two dollars for an E100GX.....Lol. Oh yes one final note on watches, Nasa conducted a hip of tests on which watch was going to the moon that was to stand the rigorous flight conditions, no it wasn't a Rolex but an Omaga that got the free trip. And Hassleblad was the Camera of choice. Cheers. Edited August 2, 2009 by hamey Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 2, 2009 Share #286 Posted August 2, 2009 ...I'd love to know what is wrong with the M8? Don't ask me to turn the knife in the wound Frank. This old post says it (almost) all i guess but who cares really? The M9 will be presented next month according to Chasseur d'Images so tomorrow will be another day hopefully. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/40585-whats-your-priority-2.html#post426251 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted August 2, 2009 Share #287 Posted August 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) bad may mean unfavourable............ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasis7 Posted August 2, 2009 Share #288 Posted August 2, 2009 (edited) interesting to see that some prefer picture quality over ergonomic. Am I only the one who prefer ergonomic? If I see myself as die hard m user who used m for 20 years, then take 5D suddenly in hands. It wouldnt work. Rather M8 even it is 100 times worse than 5D. M8 is not good enough because it is not close to films? b*llsh*t. 5d is not close. Not even future M9, M20. well, different priorities. Edited August 2, 2009 by tomasis7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted August 2, 2009 Share #289 Posted August 2, 2009 PS - Surely, the whole point about a Noctilux is that you don't need to go to high ISOs. Unless you are a habitual bat-shooter. Being an old bat myself, should I be concerned if I see an M8 with a Noctilux attached pointing at me? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 2, 2009 Share #290 Posted August 2, 2009 Funniest thing I have read for a long time. Thanks Frank. I can go and walk the dog with a broad grin. PS - Surely, the whole point about a Noctilux is that you don't need to go to high ISOs. Unless you are a habitual bat-shooter. Andy then I have two questions for you: Question 1 Which is the worst M camera ...or are they all just marvellous? Question 2 So what is wrong with a M8? I agree about your Noctilux point (you do NOT need to use it at highest ISO setting in my experience) in fact a f1.4 Summilux is powerful in low light also.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted August 2, 2009 Share #291 Posted August 2, 2009 Question 1 Which is the worst M camera ...or are they all just marvellous? This must be about the worst of them: Question 2 So what is wrong with a M8? Nothing by comparison. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasis7 Posted August 2, 2009 Share #292 Posted August 2, 2009 Andy then I have two questions for you:Question 1 Which is the worst M camera ...or are they all just marvellous? Question 2 So what is wrong with a M8? I agree about your Noctilux point (you do NOT need to use it at highest ISO setting in my experience) in fact a f1.4 Summilux is powerful in low light also.... have you ever tried M4, M3? m4 is amazing piece.. Even i dont like 0,72x vf, i cannot part with this still! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasis7 Posted August 2, 2009 Share #293 Posted August 2, 2009 Being an old bat myself, should I be concerned if I see an M8 with a Noctilux attached pointing at me? it is nothing wrong to be batman or batwoman.. as we seen in movies Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted August 2, 2009 Share #294 Posted August 2, 2009 Being an old bat myself, should I be concerned if I see an M8 with a Noctilux attached pointing at me? Only if it happens in unflattering light! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 2, 2009 Share #295 Posted August 2, 2009 have you ever tried M4, M3? m4 is amazing piece.. Even i dont like 0,72x vf, i cannot part with this still! The M4 was my first Leica and only Leica from 1973 to 1978 when I was in Milano (2 yrs) and Brasil (3 yrs) and I took a few thousand photos with it. I love the camera and still have it. The looks, balance and size is just right, and I became OK with the Leicameter MR also. I have not tried the M2 or M3 although I do like their rugged look.s. I also have a M5 and M6.......I am not overly impressed with the M5 due to its size. I like the M6 very much and still use it quite a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted August 2, 2009 Share #296 Posted August 2, 2009 Question 1 Which is the worst M camera ...or are they all just marvellous? Question 2 So what is wrong with a M8? A1 - all of them are cr@p, no autofocus:D A2 - see A1 Joking apart the question is impossible to answer as it depends on your own expectations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffo99 Posted August 2, 2009 Share #297 Posted August 2, 2009 (edited) I'm not a collector i've been using a 84's M6 since i started to take photo...and shot regularly and professionally with it nowadays. It took me just 20 minutes to realize it was a "bad camera"... no need to test any further... for "bad camera" i mean a camera which doesn't do the job it is supposed to...(for price range, history, reputation) You can't convince an old Leica shooter , which is used to the quality of film shots pushed to 1600/3200 , that the M8 does the same... and we're talking about a 25 years older camera. The 5mk2 does it!! It gives you the freedom you had with film...and in my opinion almost a close quality.. I also said that "i would be the first to throw the 5d2 from the balcony if the new M9 had the same sensor quality"....and very happy to spend a bounch of money... let's hope.... ps No one wonders why all the old Leica addicted photographers didn't choose leica in the "digital shift"? Salgado,Larry Towell, Pellegrin, Majoli, Alan Harvey and so on... were shooting Leica exclusively... but none of them uses leicas anymore... Remember Salgado's hands posing for the M7 advertisements? i don't think i'd pose anymore for the M8..... Leca had to ask Wim Wenders.... certainly not well known for his photographic skills.. I believe Leica has to regain these photographers attention if it wants people to believe there's still place for the M system in the digital era.. Edited August 2, 2009 by faffo99 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted August 2, 2009 Share #298 Posted August 2, 2009 (edited) It took me just 20 minutes to realize it was a "bad camera"... no need to test any further... Sounds like a very short evaluation time to me, too short.... for "bad camera" i mean a camera which doesn't do the job it is supposed to...(for price range, history, reputation) It does, all camera's by definition do what they are suposed to do, even a Holga does what it is supposed to do. You can't convince an old Leica shooter , which is used to the quality of film shots pushed to 1600/3200 , that the M8 does the same... and we're talking about a 25 years older camera. Preconceptions are not a convincing argument for careful evaluation. Also I could not find any photo's on your website that seemed to require being pushed, most were daytime. (Great pictures by the way!) With the M8 1250 ISO is usable but not brilliant, 2500 ISO is a major headache but still usable if you know what you are doing. The same applies to film. Film really is not that good at high ISO. The 5mk2 does it!! It gives you the freedom you had with film...and in my opinion almost a close quality.. OK if you are happy with it congratulations, I personally do not like how the noise reduction affects the files. ps No one wonders why all the old Leica addicted photographers didn't choose leica in the "digital shift"? In fact no. Most "old Leica addicted photographers" are dead, or addicted to film or both. Moreover it is a personal choice even when not dead. If I had been using a film Leica all my life I guess I would stick to that as well. Salgado,Larry Towell, Pellegrin, Majoli, Alan Harvey and so on... were shooting Leica exclusively... but none of them uses leicas anymore... Salgado uses pentax film SLRs nowadays, Towell uses Tri-X film, Majoli uses Olympus compacts, David Alan Harvey has an M8 - no idea if he actually uses it, so what is the point ...? Buying an expensive plane does not make me a luthier and vice-versa. 97.3% is what you can or cannot see, the rest might be equipment, or not. Edited August 2, 2009 by SJP Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted August 2, 2009 Share #299 Posted August 2, 2009 I'm not a collector i've been using a 84's M6 since i started to take photo...and shot regularly and professionally with it nowadays. It took me just 20 minutes to realize it was a "bad camera"... no need to test any further... for "bad camera" i mean a camera which doesn't do the job it is supposed to...(for price range, history, reputation) You can't convince an old Leica shooter , which is used to the quality of film shots pushed to 1600/3200 , that the M8 does the same... and we're talking about a 25 years older camera. The 5mk2 does it!! It gives you the freedom you had with film...and in my opinion almost a close quality.. I also said that "i would be the first to throw the 5d2 from the balcony if the new M9 had the same sensor quality"....and very happy to spend a bounch of money... let's hope.... ps No one wonders why all the old Leica addicted photographers didn't choose leica in the "digital shift"? Salgado,Larry Towell, Pellegrin, Majoli, Alan Harvey and so on... were shooting Leica exclusively... but none of them uses leicas anymore... Remember Salgado's hands posing for the M7 advertisements? i don't think i'd pose anymore for the M8..... Leca had to ask Wim Wenders.... certainly not well known for his photographic skills.. I believe Leica has to regain these photographers attention if it wants people to believe there's still place for the M system in the digital era.. Hmm Interesting comments.... You say that the Kodak sensor is not as good as the Canon 5DII and basically that is your big gripe about the M8....... > OK I accept that the pixel count is much less, but I would have thought that this is not such a big deal according to what I have read, or is it something else that you do not like with the sensor? > I accept that the ISO range is much larger with the Canon, and I personally like the fact it goes lower in ISO values. Is the extended ISO range that you like with the Canon. > If there are colour shifts on either sensor I guess Photoshop can fix as a batch? I really do not see what is wrong with the Leica Sensor and actually everything else surely is better with the Leica M8 compared to the Canon, except AutoFocus. I would identify at least:.....size, noise of the mirror, silence of the Leica shutter, speed of a mirrorless mechanism, Leica lenses, Frankly when I look at any modern DSLR and think what I have with the M8 I smile. In the days of film I could imagine buying a R3 size of camera as it was bigger but not huge. I cannot imagine taking any modern DSLR for an afternoon out with two or three lenses The R8 & R9 were bulky, and the R lenses were bigger than the M equivalent.....same is true for the Canon and Nikon high end cameras. Is this not a consideration also? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted August 2, 2009 Share #300 Posted August 2, 2009 This must be about the worst of them: Nothing by comparison. Salvador Dali did a Leica!? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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