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Seems to me Frank is out advertising his professional services here, check his profile:

Occupation

CEO - Turnaround Consultant

 

I am not quite sure about the assumptions, though ;-)

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Frank

 

I didn't say that there were many converts from Canon and Nikon

 

I said that there are many new M8 users. Where they came from, I don't know

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I couldn't resist posting these images of my car and the reflecting sunset shot with my M8.

 

Who knows which direction the Leica and the M system will go. I'm still going to use my M8 until it croaks and drive my car to the limits at the track like I stole it.

 

What's wrong with manual focus? Nothing It doesn't take battery power and assuming you have the basic photographic skills you can make nice pictures focusing on your own.

 

Those wishing that the M camera become a autofocus point and shoot should just go out and buy the D-Lux4.

 

Incidentally, I also go to the grocery store with this car.

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Are they?e? Over here an average family skiing holiday will set you back 3000 Euro - and I see hundreds of thousands head into the Alps each year. Within 10 Km of my house are six marinas - thousands of boats at an average coat of at least 50.000 Euro - I could go on, but a Leica M is not beyond the reach of many. As I said, it is just how you spend your money...

 

3000 euros for a short family vacation is a good deal and the wife and kids would be thrilled.

 

Telling to your wife you're also going to buy a $10,000 camera to document the trip could be detrimental to your health...

;-)

Edited by thrid

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What's wrong with manual focus? Nothing .. Those wishing that the M camera become a autofocus point and shoot should just go out and buy the D-Lux4.

 

Not sure where that came from - some of us may want a 21st-century M with a few more features, but no one's mentioned autofocus in this thread (until now!).

 

Lot of disagreement in this thread, but one thing I'm sure we can all agree on is that manual controls are essential to the Leica M8 ... just that it's missing a few!

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3000 euros for a short family vacation is a good deal and the wife and kids would be thrilled.

 

Telling to your wife you're also going to buy a $10,000 camera to document the trip could be detrimental to your health...

;-)

Well, if you promised not to buy that $ 20.000 motorbike this year at the same time you would be in a considerably better position...

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Jaap, just promise her wholeheartedly to hold off on replacing the bentley until next year. Suddenly a couple of M9's looks like a wonderful bargin.

 

.

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When did this apparent right to tell a company how it should be run develop? When I first started shooting professionally it was Nikon this and Canon that. We all debated the pros and cons of various features and specs, but I really don't recall anyone suggesting, let alone boldly claiming a camera company must do such and such.

 

Dr Kaufmann isn't stupid. If he needed the services of a Turnaround Consultant I'm sure he would know where to look. But I'm tippin' it wouldn't be here!

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redbaron,

 

You have in fact hit the proverbial nail upon the head. The phenomenon began around the time when people of several generations lost the ability to distinguish between what is public and what is private, and what belongs to what is (or what used to be) known as a "sphere of discretion."

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I couldn't resist posting these images of my car and the reflecting sunset shot with my M8.

 

Who knows which direction the Leica and the M system will go. I'm still going to use my M8 until it croaks and drive my car to the limits at the track like I stole it.

 

What's wrong with manual focus? Nothing It doesn't take battery power and assuming you have the basic photographic skills you can make nice pictures focusing on your own.

 

Those wishing that the M camera become a autofocus point and shoot should just go out and buy the D-Lux4.

 

Incidentally, I also go to the grocery store with this car.

 

LeicaMSeattle way cool and my sentiments exactly. Dig your ride and here's a couple of my new-to-me 1999 Boxster. Hey if they can't take a f**k joke 'em!

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This thread is quite amusing! So this is what you get up to in the M8 forum!

 

Let me approach the question from a different angle. As a film M user (and R user, alas), what kind of digital M would prompt me to upgrade from my current almost unused C-Lux 2 to a digital M?

 

1. Full-frame. It's important for me to use my lenses at their nominal focal lengths. If I want a different format, I'l go larger, not smaller.

 

2. Improved high ISO performance. The low-light capability of digital is one of the only things about it that interests me.

 

3. No IR filter. I want to be able to switch lenses between a film body and a digital body seamlessly.

 

These are the three issues that I see as deal-killers for me personally any time I'm tempted to part with the money to buy a digital M (aside from the fact that digital as a medium so far leaves me cold and my attempts to get into it have so far been stillborn).

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This thread is quite amusing! So this is what you get up to in the M8 forum!

 

Let me approach the question from a different angle. As a film M user (and R user, alas), what kind of digital M would prompt me to upgrade from my current almost unused C-Lux 2 to a digital M?

 

1. Full-frame. It's important for me to use my lenses at their nominal focal lengths. If I want a different format, I'l go larger, not smaller.

 

2. Improved high ISO performance. The low-light capability of digital is one of the only things about it that interests me.

 

3. No IR filter. I want to be able to switch lenses between a film body and a digital body seamlessly.

 

These are the three issues that I see as deal-killers for me personally any time I'm tempted to part with the money to buy a digital M (aside from the fact that digital as a medium so far leaves me cold and my attempts to get into it have so far been stillborn).

 

i think JBA has hit it exactly right in that these are the three principal issues that Leica has been addressing in the M9 development, which (and here I guess) probably started right when the M8 went into production or even before that.

 

Stefan Daniel indicated that the IR aspect was the most troublesome, but it would not surprise me one bit if that had not been substantially solved by now.

 

Whether the M9 will have any other bells-and-whistles is pure conjecture at this point. Personally I'm on the keep it simple side of the fence, but like RichC I would like to see at least some of Thrid's suggestions (EV, ISO adjust controls added) implemented.

 

As for the other side to this thread Leica do monitor this forum so they will be aware of the opposing views. However I"m content to leave the business decisions to them - they know their business; they're no fools and will have learnt from past errors.

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Jaap, just promise her wholeheartedly to hold off on replacing the bentley until next year. Suddenly a couple of M9's looks like a wonderful bargin.

 

.

 

With prices as they are over here, just promising not to fill up the Bentley's fuel tank until next year would have almost the same effect.

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Guest BigSplash

There have been many inputs above that Leica knows what it is doing etc. and they have learned from their mistakes.Wait for the announcement on price and availability of the S2 ..it was promised for July.

 

Well here is the announcement:

 

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0907/09073001leicassystemprice.asphe

 

 

At £16,000 for the body alone I guess it will be a smash hit.

 

Someone in an earlier thread suggested that Professionals demanded a return on investment for the kit that they buy...and most already use Hasselblad and Phase One for fashion etc. Enough said....It looks like another chapter in the Leica legend has begun

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Someone in an earlier thread suggested that Professionals demanded a return on investment for the kit that they buy...and most already use Hasselblad and Phase One for fashion etc. Enough said....It looks like another chapter in the Leica legend has begun

 

Well Frank I didn't believe it could happen - but I actually agree with you here!

 

The fact that a comprehensive working system for a professional would need two bodies and at least a couple of lenses, then we're into discussing an investment of possibly $60,000 or more just as a start. And at first this will be a leap into a totally unknown quantity for most pros.

Compared to this, Hasselblad are introducing a digital back that will be compatible with most of their bodies and lenses made since 1957 - for $14K.

 

I really fear that the chapter you're talking about here might be titled 'FINAL'.

 

PS: I do feel I should add that I genuinely hope this isn't the case. I seriously want and need this camera to succeed, as I do fear that Leica will just disappear if it fails. I'm looking forward to hearing from anyone who knows anything about how many pre-orders there already are, or from anyone intending to buy the system themselves? Let's keep our fingers crossed!

Edited by plasticman

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Since the S2 is aimed at the professional market, the price looks more or less reasonable. Not that I will buy one because 1) I am not a professional photographer, 2) I am not in the market for an AF DSLR of any signature.

 

Just for comparison a IR thermal imaging camera with three lenses costs about 40keuro, no AF, no ergonomics no nothing, one component Ge lenses, small 1Mb? sensor. A set of decent objective lenses for a microsope is about 15keuro, that is excluding the microcope body, lamp, camera etc.

 

The pro market is a different scene compared to the standard consumer market.

 

Whether the price is too high for the amateur market is a different issue. I guess most people find the M8 with one lens to be too expensive for the amateur market.

 

Leica is a niche company and wants to remain a niche company.

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Guest BigSplash
Well Frank I didn't believe it could happen - but I actually agree with you here!

 

The fact that a comprehensive working system for a professional would need two bodies and at least a couple of lenses, then we're into discussing an investment of possibly $60,000 or more just as a start. And at first this will be a leap into a totally unknown quantity for most pros.

Compared to this, Hasselblad are introducing a digital back that will be compatible with most of their bodies and lenses made since 1957 - for $14K.

 

I really fear that the chapter you're talking about here might be titled 'FINAL'.

 

PS: I do feel I should add that I genuinely hope this isn't the case. I seriously want and need this camera to succeed, as I do fear that Leica will just disappear if it fails. I'm looking forward to hearing from anyone who knows anything about how many pre-orders there already are, or from anyone intending to buy the system themselves? Let's keep our fingers crossed!

 

I do not believe that at this "introductory" price S2 is viable...The S1 sold 150 units I believe I guess the S2 at this price could sell a few thousand maybe as it is more compact and easier to handle than S1.

 

If their strategy is to crank up volume production at this high price and then subsequetly bomb the price (or bring out S2 junior version) then that could be smart and maybe very competitive with the pro Canons and Nikons.

 

Otherwise I guess we are seeing Leica again in difficulty....I hope not.

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Frank

 

the S2 has absolutely nothing in common with the S1, apart from the S

 

guys,

if you want to discuss the S2, please do so in the S2 discussion, which is developing nicely. Thanks

 

and can we keep the car shots for the Sports and Leisure sub-forum, please?

Edited by andybarton

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I am wondering what a thread like this would have looked like if it were being argued, I mean discussed, shortly after the introduction of the M5...?

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