AlanG Posted July 21, 2009 Share #1 Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) There is an electronic ranging device from some company I never heard of. It seems that this technology could form the basis of a very precise camera focusing mechanism with focus confirmations. I'm not sure if it needs the laser for focusing or just for indicating the point of focus. So, that might be a problem for people photography. Edited July 21, 2009 by AlanG Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Hi AlanG, Take a look here Maybe this is how a future M rangefinder could work?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted July 21, 2009 Share #2 Posted July 21, 2009 I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of the laser beam when you are taking my portrait... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of the laser beam when you are taking my portrait... I was thinking more how it displays a magnified image of the area selected for focusing rather than the laser technology. From the manual - "Laser Class 2 products: Do not stare into the laser beam or direct it towards other people unnecessarily. Eye protection is normally afforded by aversion responses including the blink reflex. WARNING: Looking directly into the beam with optical aids (e.g. binoculars, telescopes) can be hazardous. Precautions: Do not look directly into the beam with optical aids. CAUTION: Looking into the laser beam may be hazardous to the eyes. Precautions: Do not look into the laser beam. Make sure the laser is aimed above or below eye level. (particularly with fixed installations, in machines, etc.) Edited July 21, 2009 by AlanG Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 21, 2009 Share #4 Posted July 21, 2009 So, the next M is to be EVL? Not mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadthis Posted July 21, 2009 Share #5 Posted July 21, 2009 There is an electronic ranging device from some company I never heard of. It seems that this technology could form the basis of a very precise camera focusing mechanism with focus confirmations. I'm not sure if it needs the laser for focusing or just for indicating the point of focus. So, that might be a problem for people photography. I have been using the Disto for architectural work for years - it's amazingly accurate (to 1/16")! I think the "posted" maximum range is about 660' with a tolerance of 1/8", but I haven't managed to get any reading from distance farther than about 350' especially under bright sunlight conditions. Also, the laser will not work on reflective surfaces. Wishful thinking that the technology be incorporated into rangefinder cameras but until they find a way to solve the laser/eye issue, I doubt it'd happen :-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share #6 Posted July 21, 2009 So, the next M is to be EVL? Not mine. I'm thinking of an overlay window that shows a magnified focus patch in place of the superimposed focus method. There would still be a direct optical viewfinder. You'd get confirmation when you have focused accurately. This wouldn't need live view to work as it would be independent of the sensor. It could be a lot simpler than a mechanical rangefinder and more accurate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted July 21, 2009 Share #7 Posted July 21, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Ah... Auto Focus again.... RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 21, 2009 Author Share #8 Posted July 21, 2009 Ah... Auto Focus again.... RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!.... Where did I say that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted July 22, 2009 Share #9 Posted July 22, 2009 ...It seems that this technology could form the basis of a very precise camera focusing mechanism with focus confirmations... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted July 22, 2009 Share #10 Posted July 22, 2009 Here we go again... Popcorn, anyone? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyIII Posted July 22, 2009 Share #11 Posted July 22, 2009 Here we go again...Popcorn, anyone? Extra salt, no butter. Rocky Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted July 22, 2009 Share #12 Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) No butter? How can you eat popcorn without butter? When does the feature kick off? This gets my vote for the craziest suggestion of all time. A laser controlled device designed to point at people's eyes. I can't stop laughing! Edited July 22, 2009 by redbaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
twittle Posted July 22, 2009 Share #13 Posted July 22, 2009 Ah... Auto Focus again.... RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!.... With all due respect, that's not actually auto focus; the act of focusing would still have to be done manually unless the entire M lens lineup were reworked. That said, though, I agree with those who say a laser would be best left out of cameras used for photographing people. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted July 22, 2009 Share #14 Posted July 22, 2009 Must... resist... answering... thread... Must.... resist... Just... ignore... and... it... will... disappear... Must... DOH!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted July 22, 2009 Share #15 Posted July 22, 2009 Oh no! Kevin-of-9 has been assimilated! (Or is it a sneak preview of the M8-AF eyepiece attachment?) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomasis7 Posted July 22, 2009 Share #16 Posted July 22, 2009 hehe good one... I dont mind that d5 so I can throw my usual meter so I can meter anything else while standing Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share #17 Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) As I said, the technology I was referring to was the fact that the device uses a small telephoto lens and displays a magnified image of the subject on the screen. An overlaid or reflected image of the selected focus point could be incorporated into the optical viewfinder. It could use infrared, sound, or other technology - especially for closer work. Leica Geosystems seems to have a pretty good understanding of how to produce this technology. So they don't have far to look. I'm just trying to give an alternative possibility to live view and contrast detect. Linhof once made an ultrasound based coupled bolt on rangefinder for the Technika 2000. The M rangefinder/viewfinder mechanism is complicated, expensive to make, out-dated and seriously limited for future expansion. It goes out of adjustment easily due to its many delicate moving parts and is difficult to rely on close-up at large apertures. An external coupled focusing system that uses modern solid state technology to determine distance and can give focus confirmation without requiring an AF sensor or live view may be a way for the M to go if it is to evolve in any way and still stay compatible with its existing lenses. It could be sort of a bolt on module. But they'll probably eventually go with live view and contrast detect sensors as that is simple, gives more versatility, and provides a closed loop even if that requires a new sensor and camera electronics. (Whether or not they go to AF is another issue.) They can't stick with the existing mechanical rangefinder forever. Do you think if Leica was just now designing a camera for the first time, there is any chance they would choose an optical rangefinder system? Arca Swiss is making a coupled ultrasonic rangefinder for their technical camera. Now if you imagine something like this coupled to an overlaid screen that shows the focus point, you'll get it. Perhaps it needs some additional development. So? Isn't that what German camera companies are supposed to be good at? Arca Swiss Rm3d Review Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited July 22, 2009 by AlanG Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/91375-maybe-this-is-how-a-future-m-rangefinder-could-work/?do=findComment&comment=970218'>More sharing options...
plasticman Posted July 22, 2009 Share #18 Posted July 22, 2009 Do you think if today, Leica was designing a camera for the first time, there is any chance they would choose an optical rangefinder system? Alan seriously - and I don't want this to sound combative in any way - it's obvious the Leica M-system is not for you. Leave it to those who love the rangefinder as it is. I personally don't find it 'outdated' or 'old-fashioned' in any way (and I'm surrounded and work with the latest gadgetry every day). I simply find the simplicity and directness of the M-rangefinder to be the optimal solution for its purpose. Incidentally, I use it with no problem whatsoever close-up with the Noctilux (pretty much always wide open, I'm afraid) and find it more reliable and exact than auto-focus systems on other cameras that I need to use. Sad that you seem to have a special attachment to this camera that you don't want to own, and seem to wish that it was some other camera that actual owners wouldn't want to have... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandymc Posted July 22, 2009 Share #19 Posted July 22, 2009 To take the question seriously - although I was enjoying the Borg pictures - I would not think this would be the way to go, although you never know what Leica might try. One reason being that a laser rangefinder measures absolute distance, which would then have to be transferred to a lens. AKA the mechanical precision of the lens focusing system has to be high enough to translate from an absolute distance to a absolute focus position. Which is exactly where the current M8 system falls over; the absolute mechanical precision just isn't high enough - as Mark Norton has mentioned a few times on other threads. By contrast, the auto-focus mechanisms in current use on most cameras (phase and contrast detection), (a) only require relative accuracy (the "instruction" to the lens is to focus to half where you are now, rather than focus to 5 m), and ( contrast (always) and phase detect (if necessary) can iterate towards the correct focus point. So don't need mechanical precision that is as high. And the issue is same regardless of whether you want autofocus or just focus confirmation. So it would be horribly expensive (although that probably wouldn't stop Leica), but it would probably also not offer better performance than more convention techniques. And also be less flexible in regard of e.g., setting focus points, etc Sandy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapp Posted July 22, 2009 Share #20 Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) Arca Swiss is making a coupled ultrasonic rangefinder for their technical camera. Now if you imagine something like this coupled to an overlaid screen that shows the focus point, you'll get it. Perhaps it needs some additional development. So? Isn't that what German camera companies are supposed to be good at? Arca Swiss Rm3d Review It ain't coupled and it ain't no good. This is a ultrasonic rangefinder, nothing like a laser rangefinder. Leica Geosystems Laser Technology measures reflectorless up to 1000 m and more with IR Laser even further - the disto is "just" a by product of long term developments for total stations and army equipment. The question is how to couple a focusing mechanism to the distance measurement device? This is not as easy as you or Arca may think it is. Live view on the sensor is the only way to avoid ANY focus shift. Don't throw accuracies around guys. I can produce a simple example where my Disto is off by 4 inches in 10 inches - and the Disto is by far more reliable than any ultrasonic device. Edited July 22, 2009 by zapp Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.