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davidada

30 x 40 inch M8 Prints

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Jeff, are you reading? seriously I bought the lens from a fellow board member and it a sweet lens,razor sharp with minimal distortion and built like a ---Leica!

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I will post an image in situe tomorrow, even though that will start another round.!

 

Well, they learn.

 

What you're showing is end product and confirming that this thing, albeit in the hands of a Brit, is not confined to 12x9"s. The reviewer's didn't get that far, no criticism there, but your studio pics do.

 

I will never print that big, but if ........... I could, because you can.

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Just a slight correction regarding the relative sensor sizes of the D200 and the M8:

 

D200 = 23.6mm x 15.8mm / 372.88 sq.mm/ 10.2mp

M8 = 27mm x 18mm / 486 sq.mm/ 10.3mp

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Jeff, are you reading? seriously I bought the lens from a fellow board member and it a sweet lens,razor sharp with minimal distortion and built like a ---Leica!

from what i have read it is a serious alternative to the leica 21, which is so 'fricken expensive as to be prohibitive.

 

I guess the zeiss is another alternative. but as I remember the kobalux was under 1000 no?

 

this crop factor thing means adding a 21. so I am lookin' but nothing on ebay.

 

btw, are you liking the hannehmuhle fine art pearl for large scale printing?

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A quick tip for epson users - the printer makes its best imaging at either 360 dpi or 180dpi

the difference is really minimal.

Try 180dpi and you will be surprised by the results

180 at 27 x 40 (that is the M8 format) is about 100 megs as opposed to 200megs for the 360 and the file does not have as much interpolation.

Shorter RIP times etc,etc

 

My testing on my 9600 has demonstrated to me that 240ppi printed at 1440dpi seems to be the sweet spot where anything less than 240ppi shows noticeable degradation under critical scrutiny and anything above shows no gains unless you are using a loupe. Same with 1440dpi vs. 2880dpi for the printer - no difference in print quality noticeable without using a loupe. I print expecting the print to be walked up to and examined closely so if your printing without this requirement, then perhaps 180ppi for the file would be good enough.

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My testing on my 9600 has demonstrated to me that 240ppi printed at 1440dpi seems to be the sweet spot where anything less than 240ppi shows noticeable degradation under critical scrutiny and anything above shows no gains unless you are using a loupe. Same with 1440dpi vs. 2880dpi for the printer - no difference in print quality noticeable without using a loupe. I print expecting the print to be walked up to and examined closely so if your printing without this requirement, then perhaps 180ppi for the file would be good enough.

 

FWIW, the x600 dithering engine is not as refined as it is in the x800 printers and this affects visual results at the coarser pixel renderings so you can get away with lower resolution on the x800 and still look good. Of course it also depends on which paper you are using... Additionally, the smaller ink droplets of the x800 K3 inks make better use of 2880, so there is more of a difference than seen there than with the x600's -- but IMO it is still a fairly small improvement over 1440 with K3.

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Guest stnami

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Alien Skin's Exposure and Blowup a bit pricey but well worth the cost. Blowup seems to have less problems tha Fixer Lab's Size Fixer

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FWIW, the x600 dithering engine is not as refined as it is in the x800 printers and this affects visual results at the coarser pixel renderings so you can get away with lower resolution on the x800 and still look good. Of course it also depends on which paper you are using... Additionally, the smaller ink droplets of the x800 K3 inks make better use of 2880, so there is more of a difference than seen there than with the x600's -- but IMO it is still a fairly small improvement over 1440 with K3.

 

Interesting information. I used Epson Premium Luster for this testing but in addition I print on Hahnemuhle Museum Etching regularly and Epson UltraSmooth occassionally. I have been extremely happy with my 9600 and its print quality as have my clients. Normally, the advantages of the K3 inks such as lack of Metamerism and Glossy printing are not needed as most people prefer Matte papers such as the Museum Etching. The dot pattern is certainly not visible without a Louple even with the 9600. But, if it is somehow true that one could print at 180 vs. 240ppi on the 9800 and obtain the same quality, that would be impressive. Personally, I highly doubt that but I will test it with a freinds K3 printer just for fun. David would have been better off I believe posting a 100% or even 50% crop from his interpolated up M8 image to really give us an idea of how well the image holds up. Through the years, I have found that an image viewed on screen at 50% at the output size and resolution will give a very good approximation as to what one will see in the final print.

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Here is the print in a scaleable settting!

 

davidada, just curious. Are we looking at a 30"x40" overall size here with the actual image area somewhat much less taking into account the border which is what? about 3-4" per side? So is the actual image area about 24"x32" or so?

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Hi Tariq

The 9600 even on matte rag papers still exhibits metamarism to quite a degree, the inclusion of the light black in the 9800 is for this reason. Print out a monochrome on your friends 9800 and you will see a big difference in moving from daylight to arificial light in viewing.The 9800 lays down much more ink than the 9600 so you will probably have to adjust for this.

Even more impressive in this regard is the new HP Z series which have gretag spectrometer built in to the printer for one touch profiling. This automatically adjusts for temperature and humidity drift which causes a huge delta shift.

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I know you are under ND but how is the new Epson printer working out? Do you know when any details will be let out?

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i have lost interest in this discussion since my questions are not really answered, but doesnt matter....

 

just some other optional recomendation about post processing....

 

im really in love with silverfast HDR48-studio....

this is amazing software... u can print with it too with great success...

i use this software for most serious stuff too.....

it is also very fast working for proofs and alike.. there are no delays with it, high qualoty editing functions and almost everything one may need potographically...

 

it is so good and great that i even use it for highest quality equipment...

for example, i can take full quality high dynamic range tiff 16bit files from any sourse (high end scanner, digital back and even d-lux-2), bring it into the silverfast HDR and after a minute or two the photograph starts to dance in the eye.....

many camras are suported rite from the RAW conversion (including d-lux2, digilux2). with leaf files or imacon digi backs for example, i make a basic convertion with their own generic software, then save it as high-quality-range tiff 16bit and then i can work on with it in silverfast HDR.

 

is this software is better than photoshop for photographic needs ??? i dont know.. i know then both very well... photoshop has its sttrenghts of course... but silverfast gives something that couldnot be made in other softwares... it gives the digital file (from scanner or from digi camera or back) something that closely reminds the richness and the charcter of the FILM.

ah, and u see it on the print as well.........

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Hi Tariq

Even more impressive in this regard is the new HP Z series which have gretag spectrometer built in to the printer for one touch profiling. This automatically adjusts for temperature and humidity drift which causes a huge delta shift.

 

David - sorry to hi-jack this thread a little - but I didn't realise that ambient temperature and humidity affected ink jet printers. What exactly happens as temperature or humidity alter, in terms of the difference you see in your prints?

 

John

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David - sorry to hi-jack this thread a little - but I didn't realise that ambient temperature and humidity affected ink jet printers. What exactly happens as temperature or humidity alter, in terms of the difference you see in your prints?

 

John

 

I will jump in her with a little info in that the Epson's work best with fewer clogs in a higher humidity environment of 50% or so. In drier conditions, the chances for clogging go way up, at least witht the 9600's. I'm in florida and rarely do I have clogs but in drier climates, one reads about much more clogging issues. The new HP's seem to be the deal.

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Hi - Sorry, under ND and actually I did not say it was an Epson.

Two files that are exactly the same - lets say neutral monochromes will print entirely differently from the same machine under humidity / temperature shifts.

Usually this will appear as a color shift away from neutral into a strong color cast increasing as the temp/humidity increases.

I was at a printer manufacturer testing center where they have rooms to simulate different environments and one could see shifts that were not subtle from lets say Arizona to Singapore - basically from a cyanotype to a sepia from what was a neutral. It was quite an eye opener, but it did clarify why I had noticed small shifts in my files that were printed over extended periods.

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Hi Tariq

The 9600 even on matte rag papers still exhibits metamarism to quite a degree, the inclusion of the light black in the 9800 is for this reason. Print out a monochrome on your friends 9800 and you will see a big difference in moving from daylight to arificial light in viewing.The 9800 lays down much more ink than the 9600 so you will probably have to adjust for this.

Even more impressive in this regard is the new HP Z series which have gretag spectrometer built in to the printer for one touch profiling. This automatically adjusts for temperature and humidity drift which causes a huge delta shift.

 

Thank you for your reply. With B&W on rag papers, I'm using QuadTone rip with my own custom made curves which dramatically minimizes Metamerism but I have read that the 9800 is much better in this regard without any tweakig and on Luster or Fiber like papers, the Metamerism with B&W is truely horrible on the 9600. I'm also printing for Gallery display under Solux 3500K practically UV free lighting most of the time. Yes, I may move to the HP Z series in the future as it sounds outstanding.

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Arrrrrrggggghh -

 

light is dawning - so maybe, just maybe, that's why -

 

some of my B/W prints back in the summer have gone a horrible pink colour (and Cornwall in the summer is hot and humid). Thank you, David, a mystery may be solved.

 

John

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