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davidada

30 x 40 inch M8 Prints

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There was no nastiness intended; thus my Spiro Agnew preface. I do not doubt the skill of the printmaker; although, his assertions could be made with out an image.

 

He chose to show an image that he printed at 30x40 inches on an Epson 9800. Someone is paying for the paper and ink; so someone presumably thinks the image is worth it. A screen rez image shows that the print is.

 

My question, even now, after looking closely at the composition, is why anyone would snap that image. Perhaps I don't "get" colour photography. I certainly can appreciate fine print making. I would not, however, bother to look at the image presented were it to be on public display, perhaps at a gallery.

 

Oh well, sorry to have offended anyone.

 

Cheers,

 

Jim

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I'm getting used to the nastiness as being just an occupational hazard. A lot of people are having trouble believing what an excellent camera the M8 is despite its faults.

 

Sean

 

Jim,

Very good question. I always wonder why women buy those clothes I photograph.

 

David,

Nice web site. Thank you for sharing your M8 experiences.

 

Sean,

 

People here aren't being "disbelieving" . Some of us simply disagree with you. Our own work, our own call.

 

Can the M8 take excellent pictures ? Yes. Will it do so under the situations where each of us works ? That's up to us to decide, individually. One can see the spread of opinions here, David loves the M8 texture (good news!), some hate the IR effects(bad news).

 

It's just business, it's not personal

I'll buy you a drink anytime.

 

Edmund

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davida...

r u trying to fool-me-around ????????????????

 

in your frst post u said that the prints are equal or even better than 4x5"... did u said it??

 

then after my reaction u suddenly seem to talk in a bit more moderate voice... now u compare it to some D200 camera and say that D200 cannot be enlarged like m8.... is this what u say now???

 

now tell me, what the hell is D200, is it some new linhof that im not aware of its existance... maybe it is some sinar 4x5, maybe some arca or cambo????

or maybe it is just some new hassleblad super-camera that they still have not anounced to the public????

 

between D200 and 4x5 there is a great gap - it is like day and night... even if m8 is somewehere inbetween those, still, comparing m8 to 4x5 is none-sense....

if it was comparable then leica should have made some revolutionary breakthrough in technology....

 

 

sean.....

 

i have no doubt that leica m8 is amazing camera...... people talk here about me as if im negative about this camera.... i am not negative... i love leica too much to be negative at all... im constructive here and realistic.....

yes... leica has its fault as it seems to be... while nothing in our world is perfect, i think that this given fault and their behaviour is un-excusable.... and leica is not a little child that we should excuse so essily.... it is better to be constructive... better to us as costumers and better to our beloved company leica......

 

leica prints may look great.. i have no doubts about it... really no doubts....

but sean.... i see prints from medium format digital.... do u want to say that the quality of leica exeeds that quality of hasselblad and leaf??? cause im telling u, even hasselblad and leaf digitals are no match to 4x5, by no means... not even the analytical clearity of photos not to mention depth and richness and character....

 

why to do such comparisons at all.... it only may harm leica cause it sounds so unrealistic... it sounds to me like the "diet clubs" that promise poor people that they will loose 20kg in two weeks.

 

besides... should we start basic calculations about what is needed to get from leica file to 30x40" print????

 

 

leica m8 is going to be amazing camera as soon as they fix their faults... and it may become one of my fave cameras too maybe.. surely it is the only small camera that i would like to have as i have mentioned already... yes - because it is leica M. but lets not talk unrealistic things like fanaticos and echo all none-senses....

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Guest stnami

,,, pretty lousy image you selected, both in interest and compositionally surely you had something better to show! The image seems to give disservice to your talents

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Image is nice. I like it. Question on the second image...the second man, not the one holding the print...what is he wearing? The color formerly known as black, i suspect.

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David,

 

Thank you for your post, it intrigued me so I checked you out; after which your post intrigued me even more.

 

It seems self evident to me that when someone experienced at viewing meticulous high end scans, and pigment printing some of the greatest artists in the history of our medium believes that a file from a small sensor might print well at 40 inches wide it is time for all of us to sit bolt upright and pay attention! Alas; self evidence escaped some repliers.

 

You will, I am sure, go on to make prints from more detail intensive files and I implore you to disregard the churlish and post again for those of us who are here to learn from expert sources. It would be greatly appreciated by many, I am sure.

 

Forgive me if I now go slightly 'off topic', But given your knowledge it would be remiss of me not to enquire about the file preparation for the large Epson print.

 

How did you size the file for printing?

What were the dimensions of the printable file sent for printing and at what DPI?

What was the final file size?

Can you offer any observations regarding required sharpening for the file?

And lastly; given your experience, how critical is your method of file resizing for

attaining optimum print quality?

 

Yours Sincerely......................Chris

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David,

 

Thanks for posting - I love the photo personally (colours, textures, light and shade) & imagine that it works particularly well as a large print. Did you take the photo?

 

It's good to hear about print quality to that size - someone else asked a question about whether anyone had made large format prints from an M8 so it is of interest to some of us here.

 

After all, if we are only going to post our images on the web a phone cam is perfectly good for the job!

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Hello, a quick reply:

The assistants shirt was indigo blue.

For the last time for the disgruntled few ( who might spend there time better completing there websites!), I took a shot of a incredible blue wall with morning light cutting across it for a few reasons.

 

1. I had the M8 in my hands

2. Blue wall looked good in the morning light

3. I am testing a new printer with an extended color gamut ( under ND)

4. That particular depth of blue has been impossible to print

5. The file looked excellent

6. I read an article that the M8 has a wider color gamut than pro photo

7. I converted from M8 generic to pro photo in C1

8. It costs me nothing to print

9. Someone asked to see big prints from the M8

10. Here they are, but due to limited bandwidth at a reduced quality , sorry not my fault.

 

I acually preface the whole thread with a disclaimer as to the images aesthetic quality, however , I actually like the image.

Very busy today ,I will post the large format technique that I used later for those who are interested.

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BTW, how are you res'ing up the M8 files for these large prints? People should listen and learn.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

count me in....interested in your technique.

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David--

 

There are plenty of us here not posting but are *very* interested in anything you can tell us about 1) the M8 and colour rendition and 2) printing tips!

 

I've found saturated blues, orange-browns and greens particularly difficult to print with Epsons, so this example--even over a JPG--along with David's sense, tells me the camera and workflow (when the basic magenta stuff / streaking gets fixed) will be an outstanding image maker.

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How rude some people are.

 

You didn't ask for a photo critique yet some feel compelled to question your decision to print it at all.

 

As it happens you gave some very good reasons... chief among them being because you wanted to, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to find it amusing that your client list reads like a who's who of modern photography.

 

I look forward to reading any tips or advice you may have concerning the production of large prints like this.

 

Enjoy your camera.

 

Best wishes-

Andy

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David,

 

welcome to the forum and thank you for posting the info. It seems to me that the readers on this forum can learn a lot from your experienced eyes.

 

I think your photo is just fine. IMO it was quite clear why you took it; it's a very good shot for testing color and sharpness. Well done, sir!

 

I hope you will continue posting, and not let yourself be scared away by some people here, who seem to allways feel the need to be negative.

 

Cheers,

 

Peter

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... even if m8 is somewehere inbetween those, still, comparing m8 to 4x5 is none-sense....

 

Question to you: Where did you obtain this knowledge? Did you put tests on the net somewhere? It's not on your website!

 

lets not talk unrealistic things like fanaticos and echo all none-senses....

 

Perhaps the same could be said about the 'medium-format-is-allways-better' mantra.

 

Peter

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David,

 

thank you so much for this thread. I've been pushing quite hard with Sean and others to get a fix on the capbility of this camera and lens system and in one image of your workshop you've done it.

 

It is so encouraging to me, and presumeably there will be others in agreement, to know that this M8 will satisfy my requirement for large quality prints. Not as big as you've printed perhaps, 30x20, 20x24, but prints where there's no need to make excuses that it was made on a small camera.

 

You're image gets to the very essence of how I want to use the M8 - have it with me always to shoot opportunity images of light and location. I don't want it for 'spotting' and returning with a bigger capture device and my DSLR's are too bulky to integrate into my life. The M8 is perfect for this.

 

I really look forward to your future posts on this. Appreciated.

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davida..

 

none of your words doesnot descibe how in practice u made 30x40" print from file that is close to 4000 pixels in wide (the leica m8 sensor). c1 conversions etc - ok cool.... but how??? no gamut will help u when u deal with this blow up...

 

 

and u also had not answered a simple question :

 

HOW LEICA M8 FILE EQUALS OR EVEN BETER THAN 4X5 FORAMT ?????

 

u made this statement, sorry, that was really wiered to me that man like u runing busness like u run will make such a statement.... u see, i know busness like u, i work with them in different places.... none of them compared medium digi backs to 4x5 photos.... sorry...

i also see it myself, and i also know some requirments for various applications.....

 

my website argument is rather demogogy and not argument....

sorry, for those who really intrested... im working on my thesis in epistemology and i have no mood and pataince to do websites now....

one thing is for sure, between reading texts of peirce and weitgenstein and other conteporary researchers and cognitive psycology and writting - the forum with such statements is a very entertaining place as a time-out :-))))))

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Thanks David. I am VERY interested in large prints. I had posted a week or so ago with this question:

 

"Hi all: Like a lot of you I have advance ordered an M8. I have a stack of high quality lenses (Leitz, Zeiss ZM and CV). Most of my business is making large fine art prints of local sea scapes. The smallest prints I sell are 13"X19". Most of my sales are16"X24", and a large number are 20"x30". I currently use a Canon 1DS MKII, and carefully exposed and processed files make excellent 20"X30"s. Previously I used a Canon 1DS (12 Megapixels) which also yielded excellent 20"x30" prints. Has anyone used their M8s for anything other than "getting used to a new camera snapshots"? Has any Pro actually tried making 20"x30" "tweaked to your professional workflow" salable prints? A trial print (maybe 8"x10") of a center section of a 20"x30" print would really be of benefit to us that need to make big prints.

Thanks in advance

Dave G in NJ "

 

Your post and pic were very encouraging, and I thank you from a lot of us here who DO appreciate your experience, and willingness to share. Lot of rude people around who insult others who are willing to help us.

 

Very best regards

Dave Gurtcheff

Beach Haven, NJ

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Hi David and all,

 

Intriguing post of course and very interesting. Well I have over forty years of photography behind me, soaking hands in chemicals and so forth ... I am not yet digital but watching closely at what is going on, reason I read this post :-)

As for difgital printing I started at the very beginning, like I did for Cibachrome.

I then downloaded the Leica site digital DNG file taken with the M8, "the white eagle" processed it slightly, sharpen, level mainly and resized it very bluntly to 30x40 / 250 dpi, bicubic sharpen, in PS.

That's very rough actually to get a nice result, then I printed it on 17x22 to make it even worst without Rip.

The result is amazing, no doubt that with a proper procedure it can be flabbergasting.

 

Humm ! I am going to think now and that never done any good to my bank account !

 

Thanks for the post David

 

Michel

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A quick tip for epson users - the printer makes its best imaging at either 360 dpi or 180dpi

the difference is really minimal.

Try 180dpi and you will be surprised by the results

180 at 27 x 40 (that is the M8 format) is about 100 megs as opposed to 200megs for the 360 and the file does not have as much interpolation.

Shorter RIP times etc,etc

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Had to go and make myself a scotch on the rocks!

Thanks for the support Sean - I can only imagine how you are feeling about these blogs and how quickly they can turn nasty.

I really do wish you could all see the prints personally and if you are in DC you are welcome to come by the studio.

I printed four of these out today and in between reading this column and feeling bad about the banding and IR problems I keep sidling over to the prints, admiring the quality and feeling good about the M8.

We scan and print for Annie Liebovitz, Lee Friedlander, William Christenberry, Bruce Weber,Robert Frank etc. so perhaps it is not to big of a stretch to say I know quality?

 

On the DMR I have never had a chance to use one perhaps someone who has both M8 and DMR can comment?

 

 

Where is your studio? I live in DC and would like to look at these prints...and say hello!

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