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davidada

30 x 40 inch M8 Prints

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I am realtively new to this forum, but let me add to what others have voiced.

 

David has done us a service here by walking us through the large print process of a file from an M8. The photograph itself has strong elements of color and of detail in the peeling paint in particluar.

 

Thank you David for taking the time to explain your process and expound on the results. Impressive. This is definitely a plus for the camera. I'm still on the fence about my M8. I will really make my decision to keep it or not based on what Leica does with the fixes.

 

Victor: I'm a little fuzzy about how somebody as smart as you clearly believe you are, could misread David's remarks so badly, especially regarding the D200 (a 10mp camera). If you can't parse that nuance in a post, perhaps you should read more carefully before you respond.

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I think that we should give Victor a little bit of a break here. From reading his posts he is obviously smart but also lacking in his use/understanding of the English language. I know I would certainly not want to have delicate or difficult discussions with someone in French.

 

Besides that point, I am very very excited to hear what David has to say about the quality of the files and the size that they can be blown up to. That is a remarkable accomplishment in my humble opinion. Thank you David for your time and info. It is appreciated.

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Ok just one question. I just got a small Epson R2400 and I'm still pretty new to printing. I also got not much time right now to go into it. ( I hope I will get some times in my winter break) I don't have a RIP for printing and your alway taltking about 1440 or 2880dpi. Now I can't really choose these settings in PS in my printer driver. I mean there is the quality written but not the dpi. Could someone tell me what settings 1440 or 2880dpi equal ?

 

( Epson driver got: " Photo, Optimal Photo and Photo RPM " )

 

 

Thanks a lot.

Christopher

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David,

 

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and skill. Can I hazard one one more question -- is skipping any capture-sharpening something you've decided to do with the M8 generally, or only for such large prints? Capture-sharpening is such an unquestioned part of most(?) photographers' workflow that it is kind of eye-opening to hear you only sharpen for output.

 

Cheers,

 

- Nick

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I'll toss my answer out there to compliment what I worte earlier: The M8 native file is so good, it does not need capture sharpening -- it only really needs output sharpening for the final size print (or web output). IMO this is one of the reasons the file looks so smooth when printed and the main reason it upsizes so elagantly.

 

My .02,

 

Jack

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Yes, it is true of all of the Epson printers

I have done extensive testing and print comparisons and the difference is minimal and then only if you know what to look for, for instance one can print a file at 180 that is subjectively superior than one at 360 depending on the scanner.

Also whether one chooses to print at 1440 or 2880dpi has a similar effect ie. on a gallery wall under glass probably no one would be able to detect any difference- under close scrutiny by an expert, yes.

You have to take in all of the factors if you are producing 11x14 or 16x20 exhibition pictures then use 360 and 2880, if you are producing a 40 x 60 prints that will be viewed from 2 or 3 feet the no difference will be seen at 180dpi

Again you choose the most appropriate workflow for a variety of reasons, viewing distance, file size and availability and subject matter - one can print clouds as large as you like, however, close up's of fine textural details may limit you to higher resolutions both at the source and output stages.

Experiment and have fun we are in the great age of vintage digital!

David,

 

Sorry I was out of town during the week-end so couldn't repy in time.

Re 180/360 dpi thanks for sharing your expertise. Although I mostly produce, as you inferred, 16x20 exhibition prints (thus 360 + 2880...) I will definitely try your suggestions as have never experimented at 180.

I attended a digital printing workshop at Cone Editions almost two years ago but it was mainly intended for B&W which has been so far my main intrerest, but I wonder whether n your experience there exist different "policies" regarding the settings we are talking about for B&W against color.

 

Regards,

 

I certainly appreciate your contributions here,

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Guest guy_mancuso
Had to go and make myself a scotch on the rocks!

Thanks for the support Sean - I can only imagine how you are feeling about these blogs and how quickly they can turn nasty.

I really do wish you could all see the prints personally and if you are in DC you are welcome to come by the studio.

I printed four of these out today and in between reading this column and feeling bad about the banding and IR problems I keep sidling over to the prints, admiring the quality and feeling good about the M8.

We scan and print for Annie Liebovitz, Lee Friedlander, William Christenberry, Bruce Weber,Robert Frank etc. so perhaps it is not to big of a stretch to say I know quality?

 

On the DMR I have never had a chance to use one perhaps someone who has both M8 and DMR can comment?

 

David first thanks for the thread here makes me want to run out and buy a second M8. Good stuff

 

I have had the DMR for about 20 months now and without doing a full comparison with the M8 i would say the M8 has the edge in detail and that maybe simply do with the difference between the R and the M lenses. M tend to be a little better here but the files are very similar in other ways . If you ever want to explore a DMR raw file just let me know i have many images from it.

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Guest guy_mancuso

BTW I am very good friends with Jack here and he does a lot of large size printing and has been around my DMR files and now the M8 so his comments are very relevent to me on the M8 . This is great stuff guys

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alan....... that alan shearer is also slow and old :-)))))))))))))))

i was mad about him.. some parts of his newcastel career and of course the england 1996:-)))))

 

ya man - i had another read now about davids comment and d200..... sorry no missunderstanding of neuances.... u cannot make comparison with 4x5 and next with d200 - the gap is too big and the argument gets irrelavant becaue the gap is simply too big...

 

and no, i have nothing personal against david... my response to david is because he is serious man and proffesional.. other wise, with such statement by other people i would not even react... or at most make one voulgar reaction and that is it. but david is serious man... so one can take his words as granted, but some one else (who also has knowledge about photography) will ask questions.... that is it.......

 

 

peter ..... man - u see my avatar????????? next time u see it just ignore what is written besides it ok.......

 

and others generally .......

oh, im so rude, im so negative..

david how can people be so rude and so negative... david keep on posting, dont affraid of those rude and negative people over this forum...... oooooohhhhhhhoooooooo dont cry .......

 

dear people....... david doesnt seem to me to need your protection.. he is not a frighened rabit in the corner.....

so next time ..... dont make irrelevant comments... if u dont have anything to say about the issues i talk about then just dont say... u interupt discussion a little bit :-))))))))))))))))))

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Still Vic, plz write in a normal way. Your posts are so freaking bad that I don't even read them. Just normal sentences together. I know it's not alway easy but it helps the reader.

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Hi all, late for work so I have to make this quick- on "capture sharpening" I only shoot raw so it is a moot point as all contrats sat and sharpening are essentially off.

 

vic vic I was not intending to compare d200 to 4x5, it was simply an empirical statement that I had tried 30x40 files from the D200 and they were not successful, yet it has the same sensor size as the M8.

bye

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Thanks for the interesting discussion to all participants :-)

 

Before reading this thread and still after I think that more or less picture quality of most of the 10-12 mpix DSLR's and M8 is on the same level.

Beside that fact mostly the used lenses make the difference. Sensor size regarding better noise with larger sensors is another thing that can be separated.

 

Upsizing the pics for very large prints with a good software should be more important to the end result than choosing a nikon over a canon over a leica, correct or false?

Now my question: How good is photoshop in upsizing pics compared to specialized software?

Davidada, please could you give a short assessment about this? Thank you very much in advance.

 

Best regards,

Philip

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then used Alien skin blow up to rez up and added a tiny amount of grain to subdue any artifacts

 

Could you please tell me what amount is the "tiny" amount of grain?

 

"...have fun in the era of vintage digital". Great quote!

 

Thanks for sharing all of your expertise. This has been a great thread!

 

Malcolm

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PS (CS2) version does a very good job of interpolating and at the same time allowing for sharpening, however, I use Alien skin Blow up and find it superior to PS - you have to be careful using the grain and sharpening tools as they are a little agressive - therefore I use Exposure (alien skin) to add the grain mix and finally PS to do sharpening prior to printing.

Generallly I will print a small section of detail at 100% to progress the sharpening / grain stage until the printout is where I want it to be.

BTW I have no affiliation with Alien Skin.

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BTW - a new 30 x 40 print from the studio , M8 -125th / 2.8/Kobalux 21mm/160 ISO

 

No David, that's a 6"x4" screen image. Need another pic of the 30"x40" print that shows how big it is and its presence. The workshop pic of the print iis more valuable, IMO, than the image itself. Shows it's alive, has substance and it works.

 

Great stuff.

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Haters and non-believers...

 

I think it's obvious even when looking at M8 photos here on the forum that there's something different about them. As with the D2 there was something different with those shots. The M8 is a completely different thing. It's not like looking at other digital files you usually see and yet it's not like scans from film. It's comething special, something new.

 

I think one should listen and learn as well as make ones own experiences. I don't think any references we used to know cover the M8.

 

The photo is not a great family photo (because there is no family in it) but it's a tricky photo to photograph and print. If you tilt it in any direction it will go wrong in the shadow, on the white wall, in the colors or any other element.

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