Guest BigSplash Posted June 16, 2009 Share #1 Posted June 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) In previous threads several people (Andy, Bill, and others) said that they would NOT buy a Leica M8 until it is full frame (M9) and then only maybe. I have also heard that it is not a snapshot and /or point & shoot camera ....I suppose this is because: > Focus has to be done maually > To enjoy full benefits of such a camera you should adjust white balance etc although there is auto function for this. Having just bought the M8 and absolutely think it is great I do not understand what is so bad about it as seen by others? THE GOOD > Quality of build and look and feel.....Fabulous. > Small physical Size > Inbuilt software for handling Raw, Jpeg -various types, White Balance etc > Sensor capability and large ISO range > Shutter speeds. > Viewfinder for focussing.....better than any SLR in the lens range covered due to the 20+ optical elements used for focussing THE BAD > Noise is deemed to be an issue apparently .....I have not yet seen this, but maybe I should try more demanding subjects in candlelight or whatever > IR issue with the sensor in certain dark light conditions is apparently an issue...but is it if you fit the UV/IR filters recommended. ? > Viewfinder for framing the picture....I accept it is not brilliant but it is just good enough > Noctilux apparently has drawbacks for available light photography ....I have taken many photos in candle lit situations, or in restaurants without flash in the evening...Again great shots. THE UGLY Nothing? I'd welcome comments on what negatives I am missing. Why would anyone wait for a M8.3, or eventual M9 and certainly pay much more for what benefit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 16, 2009 Posted June 16, 2009 Hi Guest BigSplash, Take a look here M8 ; The Good The Bad The Ugly. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
elansprint72 Posted June 16, 2009 Share #2 Posted June 16, 2009 ......I'd welcome comments on what negatives I am missing........ I would imagine that you are missing all your negatives. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 16, 2009 Share #3 Posted June 16, 2009 > IR issue with the sensor in certain dark light conditions is apparently an issue...but is it if you fit the UV/IR filters recommended. ? The IR issue has nothing to do with light levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted June 16, 2009 Share #4 Posted June 16, 2009 The M8 might not be "perfect" (nothing ever is) but it comes close enough and I love using mine. I'd do it all over again, purchasing one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 16, 2009 Share #5 Posted June 16, 2009 Okay, I'll state my case again, then I doubt that I will contribute any further to this dead horse flogging session. I have stated on many an occasion (apologies to old readers) that the M8, although a fine camera for some is not for me, because: 1. I dislike the handling - it is too thick and brick-like 2. I dislike the crop factor 3. I dislike the IR filtration 4. It is a camera of (too many) compromises I will buy an M9 that is either M7-shaped or totally different, has a full-frame sensor and no need for IR filters. I wait patiently for the Gnomes of Solms to deliver. Good luck and good light to those who like the M8, but it is not for me. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 16, 2009 Share #6 Posted June 16, 2009 I see where you are coming from on the matter of the size, Bill, but I can assure you that is just a matter of what one is used to. 18 months ago I would have agreed with you fully, nowadays my M3 feels thin in my hands and less pleasant. Given the constraints of the sensor assembly and LCD, it is highly unlikely that an M9 will be of a different shape and size than the current M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efftee Posted June 16, 2009 Share #7 Posted June 16, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) My only bones with the M8 are the crop factor and noise at high ISO. The IR issue is not really a problem (for me) because it really isn't that bad and there is an acceptable (to me) workaround. But if you want digital, like I want digital, these, and others, are all non-factors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted June 16, 2009 Share #8 Posted June 16, 2009 1. I dislike the handling - it is too thick and brick-like 2. I dislike the crop factor 3. I dislike the IR filtration 4. It is a camera of (too many) compromises Bill Odd how different we all are Handling I don't find a problem - I had M7 and still have M6 - maybe it was because I came back to M after four years in the DSLR wilderness and the M8 just felt so small. The crop factor per se doesn't worry me - but I do have to admit I really regret not being able to use my 21 elmarit as a real 21 + having to use an external finder with it. The upside is that I love the 135 apo-telyt on the M8. It's great having usable, compact, lightweight 180mm reach on an SLR. Filters are a non-issue for me. Where's the compromise though really. From where I stand it's a working piece of kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted June 16, 2009 Share #9 Posted June 16, 2009 My photography has improved since shooting M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 16, 2009 Share #10 Posted June 16, 2009 You're absolutely right. Everything you say is correct and everyone else who has a different opinion must be: 1. certifiably insane 2. incredibly stupid 3. both of the above in spades Happy now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paga Posted June 16, 2009 Share #11 Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) What I find fascinating is how much time some people spend bashing the M8, and hence so little time actually shooting photos... Isn't it what envy is about? What for $5K it does not come fully loaded with talent?! Edited June 16, 2009 by paga Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 16, 2009 Share #12 Posted June 16, 2009 Happy now? If you are referring to Bill's comment then you'll see he prefaced each statement with the word 'I'. Personally I enjoy the M8 and don't see any of the points Bill makes as being significant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 16, 2009 Share #13 Posted June 16, 2009 Ok. I'll try once more... I'm not here to bash the M8, or it's happy users. I want a digital M, but not the one currently on offer. Envy does not enter into it - what a peculiar thought! The only people I have a beef with are those who think I and others like me must be insane because in their view we don't "get" the M8 and they do, and at the other extreme those who think the M8 is a complete pile of rubbish and who have not tried it. Neither position is reasonable or defensible. The very reason I have problems with threads like this is because they polarise opinion and simply lead to pot-shots being taken - as above - by those who read but do not bother to think. They are devisive and do nothing to inform or raise the level of debate. I'll leave you all to get on with it now. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 16, 2009 Share #14 Posted June 16, 2009 If you are referring to Bill's comment then you'll see he prefaced each statement with the word 'I'. Personally I enjoy the M8 and don't see any of the points Bill makes as being significant. I too have with the "M8" rediscovered photography since many years of keeping my "M" kit in the cupboard ...it is superb and I really did not understand the negative gibes from people who clearly know their Leica cameras. I have the following observations about Bill's comments: SIZE DIFFERENCE (M8 and M4) 1) I actually must admit that until yesterday that they were identical in size! It was only when I took out my M4 and then the M6 did I see a slight difference in size and weight and as a consequence ..feel. The M5 is biiger than M8. Personally I do not see that the size difference is major or makes it uncomfortable, and in any case it is less than say R7 isn't it, and much less than R9....or indeed any SLR I am aware of or am I wrong? I asked Leica to look at a Napa leather sleeve for just the body of M8 as it is so small compared to SLR's. Maybe a body with a 35mm flat lens would be even better! 2) ISO number and noise. In the days when I used film I used to try to force myself to use 25 ASA as this had no grain...even on a Noctilux. I have used high speed film on occassions but due to grain I never really liked doing this, and in most situations I have not had the need for anything other than 25 to maybe 64 ASA. I always felt it strange that so many photographers wanted to use very high speed film and then shoot it at f22 ( with lens interference effects) and at 1000th. in mid day sunlight. I await with interest the opportunity to photograph in candlelight with my Noctilux or a 75mm (f1.4) Summilux. In these sorts of situation maybe Bill is correct about noise , or in a nightclub, or steel rolling mill without flash.....How does the noise manifest itself anyway? 3) Crop factor...Bill is technically correct but I assume that M9 will have the same deficiency. That said most books on photography explain that the trick is to get up close by choosing a lens that gets as near to the subject (portraits in particular) as possible so the tendency to not give the total view in many cases is good isn't it? Obviously wide angle shots is different and they need a 12 or 15mm asap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 16, 2009 Share #15 Posted June 16, 2009 I too have with the "M8" rediscovered photography since many years of keeping my "M" kit in the cupboard ...it is superb and I really did not understand the negative gibes from people who clearly know their Leica cameras. I have the following observations about Bill's comments: SIZE DIFFERENCE (M8 and M4) 1) I actually must admit that until yesterday that they were identical in size! It was only when I took out my M4 and then the M6 did I see a slight difference in size and weight and as a consequence ..feel. The M5 is biiger than M8. Personally I do not see that the size difference is major or makes it uncomfortable, and in any case it is less than say R7 isn't it, and much less than R9....or indeed any SLR I am aware of or am I wrong? I asked Leica to look at a Napa leather sleeve for just the body of M8 as it is so small compared to SLR's. Maybe a body with a 35mm flat lens would be even better! 2) ISO number and noise. In the days when I used film I used to try to force myself to use 25 ASA as this had no grain...even on a Noctilux. I have used high speed film on occassions but due to grain I never really liked doing this, and in most situations I have not had the need for anything other than 25 to maybe 64 ASA. I always felt it strange that so many photographers wanted to use very high speed film and then shoot it at f22 ( with lens interference effects) and at 1000th. in mid day sunlight. I await with interest the opportunity to photograph in candlelight with my Noctilux or a 75mm (f1.4) Summilux. In these sorts of situation maybe Bill is correct about noise , or in a nightclub, or steel rolling mill without flash.....How does the noise manifest itself anyway? 3) Crop factor...Bill is technically correct but I assume that M9 will have the same deficiency. That said most books on photography explain that the trick is to get up close by choosing a lens that gets as near to the subject (portraits in particular) as possible so the tendency to not give the total view in many cases is good isn't it? Obviously wide angle shots is different and they need a 12 or 15mm asap. Above is a resend with edit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted June 16, 2009 Share #16 Posted June 16, 2009 (edited) Odd how different we all are Indeed... As far as I'm concerned, my main gripe is poor high-iso performance. Crop factor comes second. UV/IR filters not a problem. Ditto for size, although I wouldn't want it any bigger - even if this means not having FF. And, uh, yes - I feel this camera has helped me improve my photography too. Does this matter? Edited June 16, 2009 by Ecar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 16, 2009 Share #17 Posted June 16, 2009 For goodness' sake! 1. I said I disliked the handling not the size per se. 2. Where did I mention noise??? 3. I said I disliked the crop factor - I can't see how I can be "technically correct" (or indeed "incorrect") in doing so. In any event crop factor is not just about getting you "closer"... or do you truly believe it is? Frank I have said it before and it seems I have to repeat myself. If you are going to quote me GET IT RIGHT. It is a simple courtesy mastered by just about everybody else. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted June 16, 2009 Share #18 Posted June 16, 2009 If you are referring to Bill's comment then you'll see he prefaced each statement with the word 'I'. Personally I enjoy the M8 and don't see any of the points Bill makes as being significant. Ehmmmm - well I obviously ought to have been much clearer in my sarcasm, which was aimed rather maliciously at the OP, and definitely not at Bill. In my eagerness to post a smart@ss comment I didn't have time to make this obvious. I bought an M8 this year, having held back for some time - for some of the same reasons as Bill, and for some other reasons of my own. IMHO the M8 is a good camera; probably exceeds my abilities to use it etc; but still has faults that I occasionally find difficult to come to terms with. I have no patience whatsoever with people who see it as the camera of the Second Coming, and anyone who refuses to be evangelized as some sort of idiot or simpleton. In my opinion, buy the camera if you want it. Leave the preaching to the Pope. Take photos with whichever box makes you happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paga Posted June 16, 2009 Share #19 Posted June 16, 2009 Ok. I'll try once more... I'm not here to bash the M8, or it's happy users. I want a digital M, but not the one currently on offer. Envy does not enter into it - what a peculiar thought! Bill I was not talking about you Bill, you may not believe me if I say that I actually respect other people's opinion, taste etc... especially when articulated and expressed in a calm and thoughtful way. What I had in mind is more the kind of poster(s) who write full pages, lists of things that are wrong, especially the wrong, almost exclusively the bad, some of it shouting, then he quotes himself several times after editing his prior post several times as well, and then repeat 75 times until the thread is locked... and moves on to another thread and repeat. This is definition of insanity, so I take back the "envy" part Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted June 16, 2009 Share #20 Posted June 16, 2009 As far as I'm concerned, my main gripe is poor high-iso performance. Common ground here - but then I looked back at some theatre work I'd done with 1600 Fuji slide film and Kodak 800 colour neg and thought Hey - the old M8's pretty damn good! It's not in the same league for high ISO as my 5D2 - but not much else is (I've never shot Nikon), but it's more than useable at 1250 IMHO. Maybe I could be persuaded to shell out some more for better high ISO, and maybe I could be persuaded to go FF it came along. But really, my tongue's not hanging out waiting - and I'm not being stopped doing work with the M8 exactly as it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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