M8/9 as a true system camera offering

[Guest BigSplash]

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Forget the Digilux 3 - it was made by Panasonic and was a sales flop. OK ..I accept this point as very valid

 

Leica have a macro set for the M camera - the 90mm f4 Elmar, macro adapter and angled finder - which sells together for an eye-watering £2000, goes down to a 3:1 repro ratio, is a pain to nail when it comes to focussing.

 

OK so there is a market driven need for macro on the M but Leica screwed up realizing a reasonable solution and have priced it ridiculously high. They clearly do not have the Sony Walkman approach to marketing (ie Initially sell below cost and corner the niche and then enjoy!)

 

Alternatively, I can put Nikon's great AF-S 60mm f2.8, the Zeiss 60 or 100 macro Planars or the Leica R 100mm Elmarit (in order of decreasing convenience) on my Nikon D3(x) and get great macro images. I could also buy bellows for the camera if I wanted to go closer (which I generally do not).

 

OK here we go again ...another user (I guess a pro) that has available to him:

1) A Nikon 60mm (f2.8)

2) Two Zeiss Planar lenses 60 and 100mm

3) Leica R 100mm Elmarit

A Nikon D3 (x) body and an option to buy Bellows!

 

And you say that you do not need or want a new gen Viso....with that kit that gives 3 options I agree with you.

I am not a Pro and I have a M camera with lots of lenses .....are you suggesting I throw the towel in and now go to Nikon or Canon for a D SLR body and their lenses?

 

 

This is not what the M is intended for and the fact that Leica offered it at one point (before SLRs became widespread) doesn't mean they should offer it now.

WHY NOT? This is your viewpoint with your kit and for you it is probably correct....

 

PEASE EXPLAIN WHY is it wrong for me to want a new gen mirror box that allows me to use my bellows, my old lenses from Leica on the bellows and my old Telyt lenses (OK without AF, Aperture dats etc.) or the next generation "R" lenses?

 

The Leica M pre-dates even the Nikon F by, what, 5 years? .....AGREED, shows what good design can do! It shows how this can be a platform for many future decades later. I guess you have no issue with the new Noctilux (0.95?) or Super- Elmar M f3.8 /18mm new lenses that have been just released. I guess you are OK with a future 12mm and 15mm and why not a fish eye..... a new tech mirror box. Could you be a little biassed or happy with your Nikon, Zeiss and Leica "R" options.

 

For somebody who bangs on about being an engineer, a physicist, a CEO from heaven, your thinking is muddled, your written English and spelling are dire and your views are coloured by your personal wants. You thinking a modern Visoflex would be great doesn't mean it would be good for Leica. Maybe if you bought yourself a Meccano set on ebay and showed us your prototype, we'd be more convinced... once we had stopped laughing.

 

I guess the above paragraph is not to be taken as offensive it yet again is an example of humour, irony or hey maybe you are just a joker!

 

BTW, when is your wife coming back? Soon I hope...

 

 

I await my wife's return...I'll have a lot to tell her.

I do plan to buy a Meccano and I shall probably invest in a Monopoly set so I can learn about business at the same time.....Maybe the forum should consider a bulk purchase because some of you clearly need help.

[Guest BigSplash]

frankowen or whoever you really are, I resent this remark also. You complained about what you felt were 'personal attacks' in the other thread you started on this same subject, yet you feel it is acceptable to make remarks such as these.

 

I shall be making a formal complaint to the Moderators.

 

Excellent! I await someone to contact me as I too have a long list to complain about!

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[Guest BigSplash]

No Way - it beaks the whole ethos of a rangefinder and I know as I used a Visoflex years ago with my M4-2 & M6 ( It was big & bulky).

 

Long lens work is fairly in the domain of the modern DSLR/SLR.

I suspect that in reality and outside this forum and Leica's dedicated user base there will be no-one willing to pay £4K for a body, on average £1.5 - 2K per lens then another £2K for a Visoflex system and who knows how much for lenses (Leica will probably insist on using S2 lenses on it) so it will end up a far greater outlay than buying a DRM and subsidsing the long lens/macro needs by way of a DSLR system.

 

I suspect it is a bit pie in the sky and there will not be enough willing and genuinely committed people to justify the R&D and production costs associated with getting this to market.

 

I agree with your assessment completely if the assumptions are as you say. and you use the old Viso as the basis of what we are discussing...it is not! That unit is 40 years old and technology has moved on!

 

 

> Try £2500 (M8) ...not M8.2 or future M9 ,,,but the new mirror box should work with these.

> Try £6 to £8k for a set of wide to 90mm lenses

 

You now have a reasonable M series digital kit.

 

> Try £500 to £1000 for a mirror housing that avoids buying a new digital SLR camera

 

The analysis is a different one

[stunsworth]

Excellent! I await someone to contact me as I too have a long list to complain about!

 

There's a red triangle on the left hand side of every post. Click on that and you can sent your complaints about a message to the moderators and Andreas who runs the site.

 

Alternatively send a private message to 'admin', this will be sent directly to Andreas.

 

Personally I only ever use the red triangle to report spam messages.

 

You can also add people to an ignore list so that you never get to see their posts. Again, something I don't use.

[Guest BigSplash]

There's a red triangle on the left hand side of every post. Click on that and you can sent your complaints about a message to the moderators and Andreas who runs the site.

 

Alternatively send a private message to 'admin', this will be sent directly to Andreas.

 

Personally I only ever use the red triangle to report spam messages.

 

You can also add people to an ignore list so that you never get to see their posts. Again, something I don't use.

 

Thanks for this I have already sent a complaint to the web site directly (I guess Andreas will get it!)

[fotografr]

I have a hands free car phone, and a system where the car recognises me and opens the door (key is in my pocket) plus sets the seat and mirrors.........These are options and do not detract in anyway from the basic XXX vehicle. The challenge is for Leica to achieve the same!

 

What an idea! Say, maybe we could get an M9 that recognizes us as we walk toward it, turns itself on, sets itself to our favorite user settings, then greets us with a pleasant, "Good day!"

[bill]

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I watch with interest... In six years on this site I have never been referred to as "unprofessional" before. But then I tend to keep my work and social lives separate because, like my expenditure, CV, family, possessions and inside leg measurement, I regard those details as largely irrelevant and boring to others.

 

And as for "shame on you"...

 

Bless.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[bill]

What an idea! Say, maybe we could get an M9 that recognizes us as we walk toward it, turn itself on, set itself to our favorite user settings, then greet us with a pleasant, "Good day!"

 

Brent, you have it! What we need is something like the Konica Kampai. As I recall this "party camera" had a little tabletop tripod (on sneaker-shod feet) that enabled the camera to turn towards a source of noise and take a photo!

 

Leica should do this immediately!!! They already have IP in a tabletop tripod - they have sold many of them over the years so there is clearly a huge demand!!!!! All they need to do is to put the necessary electrical contacts in the baseplate around the tripod socket - they must have loads lying around that they can't fit into the S2!!!!!!!!!!!! They can sell it, I am sure, for, oh, fourpence three farthings and corner the market!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest BigSplash]

What an idea! Say, maybe we could get an M9 that recognizes us as we walk toward it, turns itself on, sets itself to our favorite user settings, then greets us with a pleasant, "Good day!"

 

It would be easy to implement but is it really useful...I suspect not.

[erl]

O.K. guys! I can see some of you are having fun, some of you are not enjoying it, other are getting too personal.

 

Do I really need to remind you of forum rules and protocol?

 

De- personalize the quips and enjoy your dissagreements.

 

For what it's worth, moderators are allowed to have opinions and I can say I would never normally consider a Viso for an M (I have 5 M's) simply because the whole precept and brilliance of the M style is its compactness, discreetness, quality ...... you all know that anyway. It does not ideally lend itself to Heath Robinson style appendages, no matter how well it works, simply because in a practical sense it does not permit an efficient workflow which is a leica's strength. To a working professional or serious amateur, workflow is equally important to quality of image. That is precicely why Nikons and Canons and R's are better at tele and macro work than M's. I have recently bought a Viso and quickly confirmed my stated view to myself. Quality is fine, handling is bumbling. The concept could never justify itself except for the rare occasions that someone like me might wish to indulge.

 

Not trying to convince anyone here. Just stating a personal POV.

 

I recommend you all confine yourselves to similar expressions about gear and not personalities, mainly so I can sleep well, confident that in the morning that I can relax over my morning shopping and not need to clean up any carnage.

[Guest BigSplash]

O.K. guys! I can see some of you are having fun, some of you are not enjoying it, other are getting too personal.

 

Do I really need to remind you of forum rules and protocol?

 

De- personalize the quips and enjoy your dissagreements.

 

For what it's worth, moderators are allowed to have opinions and I can say I would never normally consider a Viso for an M (I have 5 M's) simply because the whole precept and brilliance of the M style is its compactness, discreetness, quality ...... you all know that anyway. It does not ideally lend itself to Heath Robinson style appendages, no matter how well it works, simply because in a practical sense it does not permit an efficient workflow which is a leica's strength. To a working professional or serious amateur, workflow is equally important to quality of image. That is precicely why Nikons and Canons and R's are better at tele and macro work than M's. I have recently bought a Viso and quickly confirmed my stated view to myself. Quality is fine, handling is bumbling. The concept could never justify itself except for the rare occasions that someone like me might wish to indulge.

 

Not trying to convince anyone here. Just stating a personal POV.

 

I recommend you all confine yourselves to similar expressions about gear and not personalities, mainly so I can sleep well, confident that in the morning that I can relax over my morning shopping and not need to clean up any carnage.

 

Thank you for this....very professional!

 

As for your POV ....the comparison is NOT with a Viso that you recently bought based on 40 year old technology. I agree about handling and that an SLR is better for the pro. Your point about work flow is well taken also except if you get used to doing white balance with an M8 ...maybe you do not want to relearn for Nikon or Canon

 

I do think for the advanced amateur there is a need for the device as I use my old Viso quite a lot and now I have an M8 I shall use the Telyt lenses much more i am sure.

 

Thanks again for your intervention and reminding people about the Forum rules.

[bill]

I do think for the advanced amateur there is a need for the device as I use my old Viso quite a lot and now I have an M8 I shall use the Telyt lenses much more i am sure.

 

Right. Let's get this straight.

 

I'm an amateur. I would neither describe myself as "advanced" nor "retarded" - such terms are meaningless. Speaking as an amateur I think it's a flaky idea. It does not work. I do not need it. I do not want it. Most important of all I do not want the attention of Leica Camera AG diverted on such a wild goose chase.

 

This has been entertaining but it is getting tiresome now. Time to stop feeding the troll, methinks.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[fotografr]

Speaking as an amateur I think it's a flaky idea. It does not work. I do not need it. I do not want it. Most important of all I do not want the attention of Leica Camera AG diverted on such a wild goose chase.

 

Speaking as a professional I think it's a flaky idea. It does not work. I do not need it. I do not want it. Most important of all I do not want the attention of Leica Camera AG diverted on such a wild goose chase.

[marknorton]

Thanks again for your intervention and reminding people about the Forum rules.

 

There's also an (admittedly unwritten) rule about not boring people to death, not encouraging them to give up the will to live and not being a prat, generally.

 

Do you plead quite guilty or very guilty?

[andybarton]

Let's all agree to disagree on this one and move on. I think this thread has run it's course