M8 Impressions

[sean_reid]

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I was really surprised at the high IR sensitivity of the M8 as I fiddled with it over the weekend. FWIW I have a Sony F828 that was converted to IR capability by a vendor and I was advised to buy and use a filter (it's very pale blue) for normal photography. It might be that the M8 sensor is more IR sensitive than expected...

 

Bruce

 

It is indeed more sensitive to IR because of its very thin IR filter.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[DaveSee]

Not a joke. The filter is designed to block IR for those photographers who are finding that the M8's IR sensitivity is causing a magenta cast in certain textiles. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting the news, not creating it. Leica is suggesting that photographers who might normally use protective filters use this filter instead *if* they find it useful.

Hmmm... is this the result of WB adjustments done in firmware? I'm having difficulty understanding how, from the OP, that a "black sweater"(or other material) could effect the color balance of the whole shot... or have I mis-understood, and the other objects in the scene are rendered/drawn well, but this "black sweater" is recorded with a magenta cast?

 

If the latter, well /that/ is something no film could do... and folks write of "plastic digital images"... digital can render what the naked eye cannot see of "certain textiles", truely

 

"So, James", his M8 wielding friend comments, "nice sweater, wool-poly blend?"

 

rgds,

Dave

 

PS-I make no fashion statements, ever... just amused that a camera that "sees" too much is deemed defective!

[ho_co]

"So, James", his M8 wielding friend comments, "nice sweater, wool-poly blend?"

LOFL! Great line, Dave.

 

But don't forget the Sony video camera from a couple years ago that for the same reason could supposedly see through its subjects' clothes!

 

--HC

[carstenw]

Page 89 of the manual explains how to turn on the histogram with autoreview.

 

I can get the histogram all right, but none of the options lay it over the image, that I can see.

[carstenw]

This magenta cast thing is a red herring. If Leica is taking it seriously, they are making a mistake.

 

Here is a red herring. (that is *of* me, hence the poor focus That sweater is pitch black. My skin looks more or less fine, and the outside details are also fine.

 

[Patrickxyz]

Not a joke. The filter is designed to block IR for those photographers who are finding that the M8's IR sensitivity is causing a magenta cast in certain textiles. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting the news, not creating it. Leica is suggesting that photographers who might normally use protective filters use this filter instead *if* they find it useful.

 

Sean, don't worry. I have no intention to shoot the messenger. I am just wondering that Leica haven't recognized thinks like this or the banding issue during testing (or that they have delivered the camera knowing about it). I can certainly understand that the success of the M8 is of highest importance for the survival of the company and that they wanted to deliver it quickly. But, on the other hand, it still leaves me puzzled. How does a company thinks about its customers, bringing out cameras with obvious defects or abnormalities that hopefully has to be solved after delivery, especially a company with a reputation like Leica. Wasn't the high price we pay for Leica gear meant as well as some kind of insurance that we will have a trouble free life with it, right after leaving the shop?

 

Cheers

Patrick

 

PS: Would the use of a special anti-infra-red-filter disturbe the high optical quality of the Leica lenses *if* users find the filters useful?

[Woody Campbell]

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I was really surprised at the high IR sensitivity of the M8 as I fiddled with it over the weekend. FWIW I have a Sony F828 that was converted to IR capability by a vendor and I was advised to buy and use a filter (it's very pale blue) for normal photography. It might be that the M8 sensor is more IR sensitive than expected...

 

Bruce

 

What is the filter's designation?

 

The first Nikon D1 had a similar IR issue - it baffled people for a while because the magenta cast depends on the IR content of your light source and the IR reflectivity of your subject. Of course you can't see IR so the effect is intermitent and unpredictable.

 

The M8's IR sensitivity is clearly displayed on the color gamuts in Reid's review.

 

The bright side is that this will be a terrific camera for IR photography.

 

Nikon took a huge amount of criticism for the problem. The magenta cast really messed up skin tones under hot lights which drove the fashon folks nuts. Nikon fixed the problem by switching to an IR filter with more cutoff. I believe that they retrofitted the fix on existing cameras.

[lars_bergquist]

[quote name=carstenw

]------

I bought a chrome M8 with a black 50/1.4 Asph. today, and I simply love it.

[ ...]

My 50/1.4 Asph. is stiff, and I need to exercise it to loosen it up.

[ ...]

 

Hello Carsten. I too have a 50/1.4 ASPH and it came out of the box so stiff that the focusing ring moved in jerks, especially when I tried to focus with one finger only. A thumb on the knurled ring did help some. However that lens went back to its creator with a somewhat sharp letter and three weeks later it returned, still a bit on the stiff side but much easier and smoother. Now I am pleased with it. And a fabulous lens it is. I sold both my pre-ASPH. Noctilux (the new one is much better) and my Summicron (no longer needed for those critical shots). My only remaining M standard lens is a vintage collapsible 2.8 Elmar; and that is another story.

So just tell your Leica rep. that you won't accept that lens as is, and I bet it will be fixed, with no cost to you. And you will be a happier man.

 

As for focusing problems -- focusing a RF camera is of course an entirely different game from focusing a SLR, or even a TLR! You will simply have to learn to do it. Sit down with the camera and practice focusing on objects near and far. Things with clear verticals are of course easiest. If the damn thing has clear horizontals, turn the camera 90° to focus, then re-compose. The same but in reverse (if you catch my meaning) if you want to shoot a vertical picture. A tip: After using the camera, return lens to infinity. That way you will never start focusing in the wrong direction -- saves time. When you have learnt to do this, you will focus more accurately and decisively than on a matte screen, especially in low light, and faster than with autofocus. Believe me -- I have been focusing everything that can be focused since the late 1940's.

BTW 35 mm will be the 'long standard lens' on the M8, corresponding to 50 mm on a full-frame camera, while 28 mm will be the 'short standard', equivalent to the 35. But the 50 mm will be like a 70 mm lens (remember, its actual focal length is 52 mm) and it will be a wonderful 'people lens' for most of us. A 75 mm (= 100 mm) will be a natural extension. The Cosina/'Voigtländer' 75 is a very nice lens, and a near-criminal good buy.

 

The old devil from the Age of Flashpowder

[brucek]

What is the filter's designation?

 

Woody:

 

There doesn't appear to be one. I bought the filter from the people that did the conversion (LDP Net, http://www.maxmax.com). The filter specs are on their site at IR Filters (scroll down about 3/4 of the screen). The filter I'm referring to is the XNiteCC1. What's interesting is that they have another web page that shows why the filter is needed after this conversion (http://www.maxmax.com/aXRayDSC-S30ColorBalance.htm). Since I haven't seen the magenta cast problem on my M8 I don't know if this explains what others are seeing or not.

 

Bruce

[carstenw]

Hello Carsten. I too have a 50/1.4 ASPH and it came out of the box so stiff that the focusing ring moved in jerks, especially when I tried to focus with one finger only. A thumb on the knurled ring did help some. However that lens went back to its creator with a somewhat sharp letter and three weeks later it returned, still a bit on the stiff side but much easier and smoother. Now I am pleased with it. And a fabulous lens it is.

 

I think my copy is probably like the one you got back. It is (was... more later in this post) a bit stiff, but fine.

 

As for focusing problems -- focusing a RF camera is of course an entirely different game from focusing a SLR, or even a TLR! You will simply have to learn to do it. Sit down with the camera and practice focusing on objects near and far. Things with clear verticals are of course easiest. If the damn thing has clear horizontals, turn the camera 90° to focus, then re-compose. The same but in reverse (if you catch my meaning) if you want to shoot a vertical picture. A tip: After using the camera, return lens to infinity. That way you will never start focusing in the wrong direction -- saves time. When you have learnt to do this, you will focus more accurately and decisively than on a matte screen, especially in low light, and faster than with autofocus. Believe me -- I have been focusing everything that can be focused since the late 1940's.

 

Thanks for the tips; I will try them out. However! A colleague of mine noticed that he couldn't focus on infinity on a tower he was trying to take a picture of, and when I tried it on various other distant objects, I couldn't either. The lens would reach the end of its travel before the rangefinder had the two halves lines up!

 

I went back to the dealer, they confirmed it on their M8 and an MP known to be good, and then I tried some of their other lenses. All perfect (one was a 135/2.8 with glasses. Fun! I will have to get one of those later). They swapped the lens out, and the copy I have now is perfect. I tried focusing on something at about 3m, bang on. It seems that my focusing difficulties were due to this wrongly adjust 50/1.4 Asph. It almost never happens, but it happened to me. Anyway, now I am having more fun. At the near limit, it would focus about 1 cm too far though, but this was the same on all cameras and lenses we tried. I think it is just the limitation of the rangefinder system. The manager of the store thought that if I sent lens and camera to Leica to be matched to each other, they might improve it a bit, but it isn't important enough to me right now, so I will wait until I have all my lenses, and then do it in one swell foop.

 

More later, or more probably tomorrow.

[carstenw]

Just to catch up a bit with the past, my M8 has been back for a few weeks now, the magenta problem is still there, my IR filters are on order with FotoHuppert, but they are back-ordered from B+W, the 50 Lux Asph is still a bit stiff but much looser than when I got it (in fact, it was exchanged for another), and I bought a second-hand 35/2 Asph, which focuses super-smoothly. I have not seen any banding since the update, but I have seen the other type of streaks from lights at the edge of the sensor. I have only ever seen this when I tried to provoke it, not any other way.

 

Every day that goes by, I enjoy this camera more. Interestingly, my ex came by yesterday to have me install some RAM into her MacBook Pro, and I showed her the M8. She really liked it, was surprised at its weight, given its size, blew the focus on the first shot, and after I explained the focus system of an M camera to her in words, nailed the next two. She much prefers the focusing of the M8 to the 5D, which has now been sold to a colleague.