M8 Impressions

[carstenw]

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Well, I tried to find a thread to post this in, but couldn't find one which wasn't biased. Perhaps others could add their own impressions to this thread, as they get their M8.

 

I bought a chrome M8 with a black 50/1.4 Asph. today, and I simply love it. Before this, I had (still have, but not for long) a Canon 5D, a 17-40L, and a slew of Leica lenses. They will all go on the block, as I ramp up my M8 kit.

 

My first impression was how solid it was. I don't find that the shutter feels "gritty", but it is quite noticeable that there are three stages to taking a shot, as you press it. "Electronics on", "save exposure", "fire".

 

My 50/1.4 Asph. is stiff, and I need to exercise it to loosen it up. All my initial shots were out of focus (I have never owned a camera where the view doesn't correspond to what you get). Later ones are starting to be really sharp, but I still misfocus all the time. Patience... I need 1-on-1 lessons with RobSteve for the next 6 months, methinks.

 

It feels like it is: milled from a block. Solid. The 5D also feels very good, but the plastic CF card lid detracts, as do some other minor details. The M8 doesn't have these little flaws. I also tried an MP in the store, to compare the feel, and it felt the same, except that I like having the film winding lever, for balance. Perhaps Epson got that part right?

 

The menus are clear and simple, although I was under the impression that there was a way to overlay the histogram over the image. I still didn't figure out how to do that.

 

The noise is much higher from ISO 640/1250 and up, but I already knew that this would be the case before I ordered. It is a shame, but when you own the best camera in the world for high ISO noise levels, you can't expect other cameras to match it. I am willing to sacrifice this to get the benefits of the M8. As Sean Reid has said somewhere, other than the top Canon cameras, the M8 has the cleanest pictures of any <= 35mm digital camera (ie. not medium format), so I will live with that.

 

I tried hard to provoke some banding, but I had to work so hard to get it, and the banding wasn't that bad, so I am okay with that. I look forward to a solution, but don't consider it a showstopper. Anyway, I trust that Leica will fix it properly.

 

Another matter is the magenta cast I got on a few pictures. A couple of pictures in particular were quite bad. They were pictures of me, taken by a curious colleague. I am standing in the office, which has white walls, wearing a black sweater, with my back to the window, on an overcast day. My sweater looks magenta. I can't fix it, in Lightroom or C1LE, even by switching to the R9/R8 profiles. I need to get to the bottom of this one, but since it is just a question of interpretation of data, I am not upset yet, just a bit disappointed. Clearly, as much as I don't believe that Leica rushed it out of the door, or tested it insufficiently (in their mind), I do believe that they have lots to learn about digital. It will come. Also, there were way too many/deep wrinkles on my face. Some lens problem or other...

 

Other things: it is small, but not so light. Still, it is significantly lighter than the 5D/80Lux combo I have been using recently. Everyone finds it neat and interesting. A guy came up to me in a cafe and asked me if I was playing with the "M7 digital". I said, "Well, M8..." and we had a 1/2 hour conversation about it. He uses a 1DmkII and thinks he might need a second camera.

 

The price shocks everyone. Everyone who asks how much it costs (who I want to answer), I say "well, the lens cost €2500...", and their jaw hits the ground so fast it causes an earthquake 7 on the Richter scale.

 

I got a 3% discount by paying cash. I have never seen €200 notes before. They are yellow. ick. I gave them a stack thick enough to fall on and not get hurt. I got an extra battery, so they are apparently available. Someone was asking... I will buy the 1.25x loupe tomorrow, to help my focusing problem. Maybe I should cut back on coffee and alcohol, and take up meditation (and lube the 50/1.4.; it is stiff!).

 

The strap is nice, but I think my Upstrap is the same width, and almost the same thickness, so I will see if I can graft the special Leica clamp onto the Upstrap and use that instead. Then again, the Leica strap slides off the shoulder easier, when I want to take a shot. Experimentation is called for...

 

I have a long eBay session in front of me, to give my bank account some CPR...

 

Next!

 

P.S. Hey, I am now a "Benutzer", not a "Neuer Benutzer"! I never thought I would be excited by being called a "user" (I am a programmer, and not a drug addict).

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[kidigital]

Hi Carsten,

 

Thanks for the excellent report. It's great to find out what a variety of Leica and non-Leica users think of the camera. It's good to see you over here along with a few other FMers. I will hopefully be able to add a few impressions tomorrow.

 

Kurt

[Guest guy_mancuso]

I feel another Bible coming on , I am really chomping at the bit here. LOL

[chrism]

P.S. Hey, I am now a "Benutzer", not a "Neuer Benutzer"! I never thought I would be excited by being called a "user" (I am a programmer, and not a drug addict).

 

I'd say the language of addictions is very appropriate for Leica users!

 

Chris

[carstenw]

I'd say the language of addictions is very appropriate for Leica users!

 

Maybe you are right: I am an addict after all.

 

- "Hello, my name is Carsten, and I am an M8 addict."

- "Sorry, the hard cases are across the hall. This room is just for Heroine and crack."

[arminw]

Hey Carsten , first I would like to congratulate you to your new M8 and wish you lots of good light and opportunities to use it. I've ordered mine, but as so many others I still have to wait for it to arrive.

I am glad you feel so positive about your new Leica and reading your review has made me even more inpatient now.... I want mine too!!!

[cmb_]

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Nice work Carsten. Now with the M8 and all the photo reading you have been doing in the past few months I am sure you are excited to start working. Good luck!

 

Page 89 of the manual explains how to turn on the histogram with autoreview.

 

cb

[woodyspedden]

good stuff Carsten

 

Zaknat picked up his M8 today and Kidigital and I get ours tomorrow. Great for me because it gives me an extra day to practice with it before my workshop and trips to Antelope Canyon, Lake Powell and Horseshoe Bend. Then on to Monument Valley and Canyon de Chelly so I hope to get lots of great images along the way. i will be shooting the sames scenes with both the DMR and the M8 so hopefully I can shed some light on the differences and similarities of the cameras.

 

So far these first threads have been really helpful.

 

Keep on posting

 

Woody

[craig-s]

Another matter is the magenta cast I got on a few pictures. A couple of pictures in particular were quite bad. They were pictures of me, taken by a curious colleague. I am standing in the office, which has white walls, wearing a black sweater, with my back to the window, on an overcast day. My sweater looks magenta. I can't fix it, in Lightroom or C1LE, even by switching to the R9/R8 profiles. I need to get to the bottom of this one...

 

Hi Carsten,

 

I'm not absolutely certain of this because, 1 - I'm not that smart, and 2 - I haven't yet taken delivery of my M8 but, the magenta cast showing in the photos I've seen posted looks very similar to what my Nikon D2H would do with certain fabrics due to the sensor's high sensitivity to IR. I read the M8 review on LL - interestingly, the size of the M8's gamut is quite large, with some of the cameras sensitivity extending into IR. That may be what we're seeing here (of course, maybe not...).

 

I never put the effort into getting a filter for the D2H to eliminate the IR sensitivity but it could be done, as far as I know.

 

Does anyone think the M8's high IR sensitivity (if that is what's happening) could also influence the visible striping?

 

-craig

[sean_reid]

Another matter is the magenta cast I got on a few pictures. A couple of pictures in particular were quite bad. They were pictures of me, taken by a curious colleague. I am standing in the office, which has white walls, wearing a black sweater, with my back to the window, on an overcast day. My sweater looks magenta. I can't fix it, in Lightroom or C1LE, even by switching to the R9/R8 profiles. I need to get to the bottom of this one, but since it is just a question of interpretation of data, I am not upset yet, just a bit disappointed. Clearly, as much as I don't believe that Leica rushed it out of the door, or tested it insufficiently (in their mind), I do believe that they have lots to learn about digital. It will come. Also, there were way too many/deep wrinkles on my face. Some lens problem or other...

 

Hi Carsten,

 

The magenta cast you mention (in your black sweater) may be related to the M8's sensitivity to infared light. Leica has given me some information about this and I'll be adding a section on it to the review (Part 3). Leica is going to be offering a special infared barrier filter (lens-mounted) for the M8 that should reduce the magenta cast seen in some synthetic textiles. Again, I'll be writing about this soon.

 

Just saw Craig's post after posting this one the first time. Yes, Craig, I think you're right.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[craig-s]

Well, thanks Sean for the official confirmation (and added information) - my post was just unqualified speculation. ... and, I'll look forward to reading your part 3 update about all this.

 

-craig

[Patrickxyz]

Sean,

 

should I really believe this? Leica plans to offer a special lens-mounted filter to avoid a magenta cast on certain textiles? So, in furtuer, before taking photos of people, you have to check what textiles they are wearing before before deciding how to take a picture?

 

Please, Sean, tell m e that it was a joke!

 

Patrick

[bankston]

I get mine tommorow!!!

[rvaubel]

Hi Carsten,

 

The magenta cast you mention (in your black sweater) may be related to the M8's sensitivity to infared light. ............. Leica is going to be offering a special infared barrier filter (lens-mounted) for the M8 that should reduce the magenta cast seen in some synthetic textiles.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean

 

This magenta cast thing is a red herring. If Leica is taking it seriously, they are making a mistake.

 

PM or email me.

 

Rex

.....grrrrrr.....

[sean_reid]

Sean

 

This magenta cast thing is a red herring. If Leica is taking it seriously, they are making a mistake.

 

PM or email me.

 

Rex

.....grrrrrr.....

 

Hi Rex,

 

Take a look at the specifics in the article and then e-mail me. I haven't seen a magenta cast in my M8 pictures and I tend to suspect a C1 color profiling issue (given that some have reported this) but I'm reporting the information given to me by Leica in response to a series of questions I asked them this morning.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Samir Jahjah]

Sean, I hope Leica is not serious about this filter. I always use my lens with no filters and I don' t want to change this habit. There must be some other solution to this! Anyway, with the banding an potential issue for my kind of shooting, and now this magenta I have seen on many pictures posted on the web, I have postponed my purchase till all these little issues are addressed.

 

Samir

[sean_reid]

Sean,

 

should I really believe this? Leica plans to offer a special lens-mounted filter to avoid a magenta cast on certain textiles? So, in furtuer, before taking photos of people, you have to check what textiles they are wearing before before deciding how to take a picture?

 

Please, Sean, tell m e that it was a joke!

 

Patrick

 

Not a joke. The filter is designed to block IR for those photographers who are finding that the M8's IR sensitivity is causing a magenta cast in certain textiles. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting the news, not creating it. Leica is suggesting that photographers who might normally use protective filters use this filter instead *if* they find it useful.

 

Before people panic (again)....I believe the color correction will also be possible via profile tweaking in RAW conversion so don't get too worried just yet. And before people spin this news into legend and hyperbole....no, I do not believe that this means everyone will now need to use IR filters on their M lenses. Leica is just offering an option that can be used at the time of capture.

 

My feeling is still that this magenta cast (which I have not yet seen in my own M8 pictures) can be tweaked out in a RAW-conversion color profile and I'm not all that concerned about it. But some people do shoot JPEGs so an IR filter might be useful to those folks, for example. Again, I'm just reporting the news.

 

Cheers,

[dugby]

Hi Carsten,

 

The magenta cast you mention (in your black sweater) may be related to the M8's sensitivity to infared light. Leica has given me some information about this and I'll be adding a section on it to the review (Part 3). Leica is going to be offering a special infared barrier filter (lens-mounted) for the M8 that should reduce the magenta cast seen in some synthetic textiles. Again, I'll be writing about this soon.

 

Just saw Craig's post after posting this one the first time. Yes, Craig, I think you're right.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

I've see this magenta issue in my car. Which has black synthetic carpets supplied by the manufacturer, and addition I also have black synthetic carpet mats ontop of the base carpet.

 

Under natural sunlight they both look black and identical in the 'shade' of black.

 

However I wear Rayban sunglasses which have polaroid lenses, and carpet mats appear magenta whilst the base carpet looks black.

 

Clearly a combination the chosen black dye and the synthetic fibres are reflecting different wavelengths, and the Polaroids are filtering some wavelengths of light. Hence the differences observed.

 

I suspect something similar is happening with the lenses being used and Leica's avoidance of not coating the glass unnecessarily.

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[ho_co]

This magenta cast thing is a red herring. .....grrrrrr.....

Rex--

Typo? You meant infra-red herring?

 

--HC

[brucek]

I was really surprised at the high IR sensitivity of the M8 as I fiddled with it over the weekend. FWIW I have a Sony F828 that was converted to IR capability by a vendor and I was advised to buy and use a filter (it's very pale blue) for normal photography. It might be that the M8 sensor is more IR sensitive than expected...

 

Bruce