offshore Posted June 2, 2009 Share #21 Posted June 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) You guys have been so helpful. Your suggestions and links seem to narrow it down to two excellent printers: the Epson 3800 and HP 9180. At about half the price I'm inclined to try the HP 9180 first, but the latest reviews on Amazon (US) and HP's own website have been giving it HORRIBLE ratings due to reliability issues (but everyone notes fantastic printed images when it's working). Should I take a chance or spend 2X the cash for the Epson (which I think will also do A2 printing)? Thoughts? Hal Here's my two cents worth for what it's worth. Printer reliability is going to be much more important than you think because there aren't too many things more frustrating then getting all excited about making a print then having your printer fail on you or destroy an expensive piece of paper. The printers you are deciding on have reliability issues and that isn't going to change for you. I used Epson printers for years because I thought printer problems were just a part of the computer printer interface game then I bought a Canon i9900 and found out what a good dependable printer can do, I used it continuously for almost three years, without any color, banding or breakdown issues, sold it to a friend who is still using it without problems a year later. I replaced it with the i9500 so I could get better quality black and whites and the comments I get are how beautiful and vibrant the prints are especially the blacks which one photographer friend of mine called velvety black. Canon printers are excellent and trouble free and the i9500 is a pigment ink printer with 13" carriage and bottom tray feed for thicker art papers. I highly suggest you look into them before you buy an Epson or HP and get frustrated with home printing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 2, 2009 Posted June 2, 2009 Hi offshore, Take a look here Printer/Paper options for M8 images. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wlaidlaw Posted June 2, 2009 Share #22 Posted June 2, 2009 Here's my two cents worth for what it's worth. Printer reliability is going to be much more important than you think because there aren't too many things more frustrating then getting all excited about making a print then having your printer fail on you or destroy an expensive piece of paper. The printers you are deciding on have reliability issues and that isn't going to change for you. I used Epson printers for years because I thought printer problems were just a part of the computer printer interface game then I bought a Canon i9900 and found out what a good dependable printer can do, I used it continuously for almost three years, without any color, banding or breakdown issues, sold it to a friend who is still using it without problems a year later. I replaced it with the i9500 so I could get better quality black and whites and the comments I get are how beautiful and vibrant the prints are especially the blacks which one photographer friend of mine called velvety black. Canon printers are excellent and trouble free and the i9500 is a pigment ink printer with 13" carriage and bottom tray feed for thicker art papers. I highly suggest you look into them before you buy an Epson or HP and get frustrated with home printing. I have a feeling that the i model Canons are all now replaced by the Pixma Pro series (certainly in Europe). I know for example, even the Pixma Pro 9500 I have in the UK has just been updated to a Mk2 version this week. There may still be old stock i models around, probably at a good price. For example, I just bought a new Mitsubishi HC4900 full HD projector (1920 x 1080 pixels native display). It was last year's model, so it was at 50% of original price. The 3800 Epson as Innuguaq mentions, does not have roll feed, so you will miss out on all the fun of weighting down your images for days to flatten the paper curl. I think roll feed is really for full time working professionals, who are printing dozens of images a day and maybe can afford a heated flattener. The reverse feed rarely seems to work well on roll feeds, so if you are printing only one image you can either waste quite a bit of paper or risk ruining the whole roll by using the reverse feed. For the difference in cost between the 3800 and the 4880 with roll feed, you would need to have printed a huge amount to get your money back. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adavis47 Posted June 2, 2009 Share #23 Posted June 2, 2009 Another printer info link: Printerville I purchased an Epson R2880. Prints are beautiful but ink tanks are small. As mentioned, with 3800 you basically get over $1,000 worth of ink when you buy the printer! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted June 2, 2009 Share #24 Posted June 2, 2009 Another printer info link: PrintervilleI purchased an Epson R2880. Prints are beautiful but ink tanks are small. As mentioned, with 3800 you basically get over $1,000 worth of ink when you buy the printer! It's quite amazing really how much manufacturers charge for ink cartridges compared to the cost of a printer. Back in 2001/2002 I was buying Kodak A4 size photo printers and throwing them away when the ink ran out. The cost of a new printer with new full-size cartridges was quite a bit less than the cost of buying the ink alone! Crazy eh? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sclamb Posted June 2, 2009 Share #25 Posted June 2, 2009 I have used the B9180 and never had a problem. The B&W printing is superb. Simon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjorlsrgn Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share #26 Posted June 2, 2009 Offshore- Thanks and I am considering Canon- it's now called the Pixma PRO9000 MK II and PRO9500 Mk II. Only negatives seem to be that they are a little slower and less than ideal standard profiles, but evidently these will be an improvement in the MK II models. Adavis and Simon: GREAT links that have been very helpful and informative! Thanks Sorry, but I will really find it impossible to go with the HP 9180- just too many reliability issues floating around in cyberspace- it seems that every great review has a negative one following it. Offshore- while I'm considering the Canons, for the life of me I can't really find enough negative reviews of the Epson 3800 to place in the same category as the HP. While I know this isn't very scientific and certainly can be skewed in different directions, there are really only a couple of isolated negative comments. The biggest problems seems to be the flimsy front door/shelf and lack of roll feed which for me is a non-issue. So for me and my potential level of usage, I should probably choose between the Epson 2880 and the Canons; the real dilemma is that for a few hundred more dollars, I can get the workhorse Epson 3800, never have to change the ink, and have gallery prints. Wow- it's so easy to overachieve when we're working with our Leicas, isn't it? Still thinking..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 2, 2009 Share #27 Posted June 2, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) If the PP9000 Mk2 is still dye based ink, I would suggest you avoid. Dye based inks fade sooner or later. The PP 9500 Mk2 is pigment - much better. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjorlsrgn Posted June 2, 2009 Author Share #28 Posted June 2, 2009 Good point and I'll check into that. Thank you for your diligence with this thread, Wilson. Hal Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas_thomsen Posted June 2, 2009 Share #29 Posted June 2, 2009 my paper choice for B/W is hanhnemuehle fine art baryta wowowowowowowowowow any better paper around? i know silly question - lol cheers andy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 2, 2009 Share #30 Posted June 2, 2009 Offshore- Thanks and I am considering Canon- it's now called the Pixma PRO9000 MK II and PRO9500 Mk II. Only negatives seem to be that they are a little slower and less than ideal standard profiles, but evidently these will be an improvement in the MK II models. Adavis and Simon: GREAT links that have been very helpful and informative! Thanks Sorry, but I will really find it impossible to go with the HP 9180- just too many reliability issues floating around in cyberspace- it seems that every great review has a negative one following it. Offshore- while I'm considering the Canons, for the life of me I can't really find enough negative reviews of the Epson 3800 to place in the same category as the HP. While I know this isn't very scientific and certainly can be skewed in different directions, there are really only a couple of isolated negative comments. The biggest problems seems to be the flimsy front door/shelf and lack of roll feed which for me is a non-issue. So for me and my potential level of usage, I should probably choose between the Epson 2880 and the Canons; the real dilemma is that for a few hundred more dollars, I can get the workhorse Epson 3800, never have to change the ink, and have gallery prints. Wow- it's so easy to overachieve when we're working with our Leicas, isn't it? Still thinking..... The only negatives I've heard about the Epson P3800 is the inkjet nozzles gumming up if they aren't continuously used. I have two pro photo friends who own it and besides the cost of new ink tanks (around $500 if all replaced) that's all they've complained about. I'm not sure if this is still the case but you might want to check into how Epson's are serviced. Epson (and this may have changed) would not sell directly to the retailers, they had to buy from a middle man such as Erickson in the US and I've heard that returns and service really suffered for it. As someone pointed out the i series Canon may have morphed into a "pro" series which may be different than my Pixma pro 9500. I've been considering the Epson 3800 for some time now because of the 17" carriage which will take some of the beautiful hand made papers I brought back from Etla Mexico but I need to sell some more work to afford it. Good luck in your choice, once you make it you will be back asking about screen calibration and there is a wealth of advice on that here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2009 Share #31 Posted June 2, 2009 The only negatives I've heard about the Epson P3800 is the inkjet nozzles gumming up if they aren't continuously used. . Two years with a 3800 and never a clog...I print in batches...months apart due to my work schedule. I have never had a better printer...it is better than I am. Two rules....always put platen gap at the widest and use a RIP...Colorbyte 7 is amazing with profiles for almost any paper...I have not found one for the brown bags from my local grocer but almost any other paper is available. Roll paper is not an advantage for the non-Pro. Curl is a major problem if you do not mount your output. The 3800 is a great size...put it on the floor in an out-of-the-way room and use wireless ethernet...I recently printed 17x22 inch poster sized paper with no problem.. I am thinking of moving to a 7900 but do not think that it offers any advantage in print quality just a wider size. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmun Posted June 2, 2009 Share #32 Posted June 2, 2009 I have a HP9180 with reliability problems - banding and too much gunk inside. Before that I had a Canon i9900 with a magenta cast and wheel marks. I'm also considering the Epson Stylus Pro 3800 especially as it's A2 instead of A3. Most reports seem positive, but blocked heads is a worry as I won't be using it everyday or even every week. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjorlsrgn Posted June 3, 2009 Author Share #33 Posted June 3, 2009 I really appreciate everyone's input. For the record, I'm choosing the Epson 3800- just ordered it from Amazon- it'll be here tomorrow. Highly considered: Epson 2880 and the new Canon Pixma PRO 9500 MK II ( with a little consideration to the Epson 1900 and Canon Pixma PRO 9000 Mk II). Sorry, HP, but just too many reliability issues. My convoluted reasoning: Just a few hundred more $, but with apparent carts lasting as much as 5X the others (not that worried about wasted ink on switching black cart issues, as I'll probably have minimal paper changes in my low volume of printing). Similar footprints as others, no apparent major reliability issues (in fact, in all my "research" it had significantly less complaints than all others considered), and just overall great track record for the past 3+ years. They ALL obviously make wonderful prints of our images. Only concern: When will the Epson 3900 (or 3880) be released? Obviously when you invest $1200 on a piece of equipment you want it to be the latest and greatest! Now that I've bought it, Epson will probably announce next week that they will be shipping the new version next month. Once again thanks to all. Hopefully I can update the thread soon and let you know how things are going. Best Regards- Hal Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 3, 2009 Share #34 Posted June 3, 2009 my paper choice for B/W is hanhnemuehle fine art barytawowowowowowowowowow any better paper around? i know silly question - lol cheers andy I use the Hahnemuehle photo rag and get beautiful blacks on it. It has become my paper of choice. I've recently tried the bamboo paper and also like it for a little warmer tone when I need it. Anyone tried the sugar cane paper yet? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 3, 2009 Share #35 Posted June 3, 2009 Epson 3800, for archival reasons, and for the 3-black inks, which make for absolutely dead-neutral B&W images, even when they are part of a color collage. Epson Premium Luster for color. (Ilford (Swiss) papers are tempting because of the price, but tend to develop a curl in the box that leads to mis-feeds - plus my local dealer has all the Epson sizes up to 17 x 22 inches all the time) Harman (the UK company formerly called Ilford) Gloss FB AI for B&W - it is still the best reproduction of a gelatin silver print surface (IMHO), as one would expect from the company that also makes Multigrade FB. I used high-grade glossy papers when I had a dye printer, but the Premium Luster handles the pigment inks of the 3800 better, and the Harman also shows a very low "gloss differential". The only problem I've had with the 3800 was the light magenta ink printing as gray - turns out Epson recommends shaking the ink tanks generously before installing, and once every month or so thereafter, to keep the pigments from settling out. Something I'd missed in the Ink/Printer instructions. IMHO, matte paper is for etchings and lithographs. Photographs are glossy or semi-glossy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted June 3, 2009 Share #36 Posted June 3, 2009 I really appreciate everyone's input. For the record, I'm choosing the Epson 3800- just ordered it from Amazon- it'll be here tomorrow. Highly considered: Epson 2880 and the new Canon Pixma PRO 9500 MK II ( with a little consideration to the Epson 1900 and Canon Pixma PRO 9000 Mk II). Sorry, HP, but just too many reliability issues. My convoluted reasoning: Just a few hundred more $, but with apparent carts lasting as much as 5X the others (not that worried about wasted ink on switching black cart issues, as I'll probably have minimal paper changes in my low volume of printing). Similar footprints as others, no apparent major reliability issues (in fact, in all my "research" it had significantly less complaints than all others considered), and just overall great track record for the past 3+ years. They ALL obviously make wonderful prints of our images. Only concern: When will the Epson 3900 (or 3880) be released? Obviously when you invest $1200 on a piece of equipment you want it to be the latest and greatest! Now that I've bought it, Epson will probably announce next week that they will be shipping the new version next month. Once again thanks to all. Hopefully I can update the thread soon and let you know how things are going. Best Regards- Hal Come back after you've used it for a while and let us know your impressions. I wouldn't worry about a replacement that's always going to happen in the world of electronics but if this printer is as good as has been touted on this thread then there really isn't much to improve upon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted June 3, 2009 Share #37 Posted June 3, 2009 Hal, I think you will be pleased with the 3800, I know I am. If you use Ian Lyons information from his website, I think you will be getting great prints in no time. I use Premium Luster paper almost excuusively for color and black and white FWIW Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickmeertens Posted June 3, 2009 Share #38 Posted June 3, 2009 M8/Lightroom/HP9180 simple, runs smoothly even after weeks in between printing sessions.I use mostly Hahnemuhle papers (photo rag, photorag pearl) and Ilford baryta. Same here, although I hardly ever use Hahnemuhle anymore since discovering Ilfords gold fibre silk Baryta paper! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 3, 2009 Share #39 Posted June 3, 2009 I echo Nick's comments above. Ilford are doing a really great job and bringing out exciting new papers regularly. As I commented in a post above, the nice thing is that virtually simultaneously with the issue of a new paper, comes the release of icc profiles for most of the good photo printers. This saves a lot of hard work and test print strips, as these profiles seem about 95% or better of the way there. The main tweak I have found is that they sometimes need the brightness increased a bit to get a screen match. This may be because I am running my iMac screen at 2.2 gamma and not the usual Mac gamma of 1.8. For most prints, I use Ilford Galerie Smooth Pearl. In the UK, my usual supplier, Marrutt, who are only about 10km away, were out of stock of Ilford Smooth Pearl and offered me a great deal on a 100 sheet box of Lyson Heavyweight Satin Lustre A3+. Lyson were very helpful and did me a custom profile for my Canon PP9500 but I still don't like the end results as much as the Ilford Smooth Pearl equivalent. I have not tried the Ilford Gold papers yet but as I am getting down to my last few sheets of Smooth Pearl A3+ in France, I will order some. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted June 3, 2009 Share #40 Posted June 3, 2009 I run a PPC G5 and Macbook Pro with Aperture. My new printer an Epson 3800 which has just replaced my old Canon i9950 is working very well with the kit. If I could offer one piece of advice, while the initial cost of the Epson seems high (€900), one must take into consideration the value of the ink (€500) included in the package. The tanks are quite large (80ml) and should work out cheaper than smaller tank printers in the long run. Also a point to consider is the 3800 keeps the matte and gloss black inks onboard so no physical swap out is required. However it will require an ink purge when changing from matte papers to gloss or semigloss. This procedure is quite economical with the ink requiring about 3ml from gloss to matte and 5ml from matte to gloss. It is true there is no roll fed paper function, but unless this is a standard requirement I'd suggest you get this work done externally. The 3800 handles up to A2 which is 17" wide. Beautiful printer, stunning output in both colour and monochrome. My favorite papers are Hahnemuhle Photo Rag 308g/sm and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag Baryta for Monochrome and Ilford Gold fiber Silk for colour work. Lots of ICC profiles available for common paper types including fine art. A very good site for information regarding this printer can be found here Epson Stylus Pro 3800 Printer Notes and Resources Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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