Leica 21mm F2.8 Elmarit pre asph

[dommlid]

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Thinking about getting the above lens to use as my 'standard' lens on my M8, other lens are 15mm CV, 50mm 1.4 Summicron and 75mm CV. The cropped length of 28mm seems just about right for mixed subject shots (some architecture, landscape, street)

 

Any opinions on using this lens in all rounder mode or am I being foolish by not jumping for a 28mm Summicron? I always relish input/advice. from other members

 

Ta!

[thehouseflogger]

I love my 24mm - just a bit wider.

 

When in Bridge looking at a wedding the dng files just pop out at you from the L produced CR2's.

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[JLV]

Dommlid,

 

It is an excellent choice.

 

This lens is one of a kind.

Perfect for many purposes as architecture or street photo.

 

Here are some pics untouched in term of color light etc;; with such a lens lent by a friend for a week end.

 

Non coded, no filter. M8 wich makes it a 28.

No art in this pics just a test.

 

All the best,

Jean-Luc

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[noah_addis]

I have both the 21 Elmarit Asph and the 24 Elmarit Asph.

 

I find the 28mm focal length ideal for film or full-frame use, but I think the 21 is just a bit too wide on the M8. Others have mentioned this phenomenon, whereby lenses seem wider than their effective focal lengths on the M8 would suggest.

 

The 24 seems perfect to me on the M8. It's my main lens now, and I rarely use my 28 'cron on the M8 anymore. There are very few assignments I can't do with a 24 and my 50 'lux pre-asph on the M8.

 

You should try out some of the different lenses if at all possible to decide for yourself, but I would consider a 24, especially since you have a 15 if you need to go really wide.

 

One other issue--some will tell you that you can use a 21mm on the M8 without a finder, but if you want accurate framing you'll need an external finder. Again this is a matter of personal preference, but do you want to use an external finder for what will be your 'standard' lens?

[offshore]

I've owned the 21 pre ASPH for several years and used it on film M4 P and now on my M8. When I bought the M8 I bought the 28 Elmarit with it and after I saw the results I thought I'd never take it off. Last year I lived in Mexico and photographed the pre colonial and colonial architecture and couldn't get enough in my photos for the results I wanted. I hadn't used the 21 much, also considering it too wide, but after I saw the results from it I have to say I now do most of my photography with it. The pre ASPH is a marvelous highly under rated lens that you can now pick up for around $1K in good condition. I've had mine 6 bit coded and I think that even improved image quality from it.

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[photophile]

I have the 21 pre-asph and use it frequently on the m8. i have found it to be a great lens, and actually use it for environmental portraits. it does have some widening towards the edges but that can be used to effectively call more attention to the middle. handles contrast very well, great tonal range. very underated in my opinion. look up some of my balloon people posts to see images. good luck. its a good choice. CH

[aj55]

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off topic: nice stereo JLV !

[markgay]

Quoting Noah:

 

I find the 28mm focal length ideal for film or full-frame use, but I think the 21 is just a bit too wide on the M8. Others have mentioned this phenomenon, whereby lenses seem wider than their effective focal lengths on the M8 would suggest.

 

I've raised this before, in the process betraying my ignorance, I'm sure. When you put a 21mm lens on an M8, surely in terms of perspective it continues to act like a 21mm, simply with centrally cropped view?

 

Yes, I know perspective depends on the position of the camera.

 

However, surely the 21mm/M8 combo means you are producing an image which should be viewed closer up.. or does the fact you are using it as a 28mm, from the distances for which you would use that lens, mean it becomes a 28mm (excuse my syntax)?

 

Re the pre-asph, it's an E60 filter, isn't it? Good in a film combo with the Noctilux and 75mm Lux.

 

Regards,

M

[jaapv]

You are both right and wrong. The assumption is that one moves the camera to create the same framing of the subject, thus creating an angle of view and a perspective that is siimilar to the next focal length.

On the other hand, many users, me included, have found that the focal lengths tend to keep their original character, despite numbers and theory.

[JLV]

off topic: nice stereo JLV !

 

Thanks AJ,

 

Here are the details in case of interest:

 

LP12 turntable with Ittok IV arm on a sand box, DL103, Audiofolia transformer, quartz external speed control unit, Van den Hull cables, Audio research SP9 preamp, D70 tubes amp, BW Nautilus 802 loudspeakers, Magnum dynalab tuner, Yamaha 160 gigas hard disc recorder and CD player.

(I use the last one to record live jazz or classical concerts on FM)

I listen 99% LP's. (around 4 000 in my collection)

 

all the best,

Jean-Luc

[HeinB]

Confusing comments above.

 

IMHO, 28 mm on M6/7 and 21 mm on M8 give you exactly the same shot if you stand at the same position and point the same direction. Except that DOF differs, so open up one or two stops on yr 21 to get the DOF of the longer focal.

 

for illustration, see pp 106-107 in the book '50 Jahre Leica M' by Osterloh. And convince yourself that the relative positions of all elements in those shots remain unchanged when focal length changes. there is no such thing as a perspective or character associated with focal length.

 

I find the 21 a nice lens on M8, non-coded mine is recognized as 90 mm, but I see no troubles in corners with vignetting or color (I do carry the IR filter). it may be a bit large though to fit in narrow lens bags, even without hood (which I do not use/own).

 

indeed pre asph 21 seem relatively cheap now,

good luck, Hein

[steamboat]

21mm f2.8 Elmarit is becoming my favorite on M8.2. I use the entire camera viewfinder and it works okay. I have the filter and it's coded. Oddly there's one minor thing I've noticed. With the 60mm filter there is little hiding the lens. I do a lot of candid stuff and at an angle the filter reflects that pinkish ir/uv filter color and people tend to notice it. My Noctilux with filter and shade doesn't get noticed as much (same size filter obviously). AND I do use the sunshade on the 21 so that's no help. But I love the field of angle for the M8. I use to use it occasionally on M6 but too wide for general use. On M8 it's great. I do agree with Jaap that lenses retain their focal length characteristics even though "cropped" by camera. Even in extreme telephotos. A 400mm on my 1.6x Canon "still" feels like a 400 not the 600mm+ effective focal length.

[guidomo]

I have an Asph 21/2.8 to sell, in case you are interested. Great lens, only parting because I'm moving to a Summilux.

[markgay]

Quoting Hein:

IMHO, 28 mm on M6/7 and 21 mm on M8 give you exactly the same shot if you stand at the same position and point the same direction. Except that DOF differs.

 

That's the point I'm trying to work towards. Even allowing for the concept of perspective which, as Osterloh shows in his book is about the position of the camera not the angle of view, you still have the issue of depth of field.

 

The DOF of a wider lens will remain constant, even when the image is cropped to the M8 sensor.

 

So it seems that a 21mm does not fully become a 28mm.

 

What we end up with is, as Jaap says above, a mix of features - the lenses appear to retain some characteristics of the focal length, despite the crop.

 

That's not surprising, perhaps, because the focal length - image plane to front lens - doesn't change from the M7 to the M8 - even though we talk as if it does.

 

Regards,

Mark

[Anguish]

I have one on my M8 and have been using it for two years, coded and with a filter. I have an external viewfinder, which I rarely use any more, although it can be helpful. Very useful, even though it is a bit bulky compared to some contemporary glass.

[Bo_Lorentzen]

Naturally a lens continue to render the way it does on one camera when moved to another camera, the lens rendering is a product of the specific formula used to create the lens, this is not changed by changing magnification (crop-factor)

 

DOF is not a constant. it is a value suggesting that we will be reasonable happy with the sharpness of details in the image at a particular f.stop originally calculated for 35mm film printed to 3x5 inch prints. (well at least in the case of 35mm cameras, naturally this does not apply for 8x10 view-camera lenses)

 

The catch with DOF is that while the lens render the same, the practical DOFchanges when we change the magnification of the image, such as by printing the image to a 20x30 inch print, suddenly it become clear that lots of things which look sharp on the screen or in a 5x7 inch print is no longer satisfyingly sharp. and that is what the DOF calculation is about.

 

The magnification to make a 8x10 from a M8 is also different from a M7 image, so for all practical intents and purposes, the practical DOF have changed. However if we trimmed the M7 image so it matched the M8 image... then YES the dof would be identical.

 

.

[noah_addis]

I didn't mean to turn this thread off topic to a discussion about perspective and depth of field.

 

I'd still recommend at least trying out a 24, it's a great focal length on the M8 and doesn't need an external finder.

[charlesphoto99]

Considering your gap in your lens line up I would seriously consider getting a 28 (Cron if you can swing it). While my 24 Elmarit renders superb images, I find it much more difficult to compose versus the 28 due to the hard to see framelines and the inclusion of the 35 lines. The 28 is one set of lines only and very easy to see. Plus the extra stop will be used more than you think.

 

I recently picked up a used 21 pre, but doubt I'll hang onto it. I find my Zeiss 18 a much more usable lens. But that's just me. Though I have to say, if I was to just go for just one lens on the wide side it would be the 21 Lux. but oh god what I would have to sell to get there...

 

Best to try all the focal lengths yourself. Fortunately not much to lose buying and selling Leica lenses if you do it smartly.

[danyves]

I have the 21 pre-asph but found now that I am using the 2.8/24 mm Elmarit ASPH as my only lens on the M8, practising "candid photography" or "street photography" to summarize. I also do have the 15mm CV and the Summicron 2/28mm ASPH and 2/35 mm ASPH. Do not use them any more like I used them with the M6s.

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[offshore]

Considering your gap in your lens line up I would seriously consider getting a 28 (Cron if you can swing it). While my 24 Elmarit renders superb images, I find it much more difficult to compose versus the 28 due to the hard to see framelines and the inclusion of the 35 lines. The 28 is one set of lines only and very easy to see. Plus the extra stop will be used more than you think.

 

I recently picked up a used 21 pre, but doubt I'll hang onto it. I find my Zeiss 18 a much more usable lens. But that's just me. Though I have to say, if I was to just go for just one lens on the wide side it would be the 21 Lux. but oh god what I would have to sell to get there...

 

Best to try all the focal lengths yourself. Fortunately not much to lose buying and selling Leica lenses if you do it smartly.

Charlesphoto99 why do you prefer your 18 Zeiss over the 21 Leitz? I'm asking because I also own the 21 pre ASPH Leitz, use it more than any of my lenses but have recently needed a bit more field of view and have been looking at the Zeiss 18. Did you code your 18 and how? Do you have a link to any of your photos with it? Thanks in advance for any help.