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B&W IR filter ok to use on 28mm Elmarit?


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I just took possession of a new M8 yesterday. I'm trying to decide which two free Leica IR filters to get. I have four lenses, all from the late 1970s: 28mm Elmarit-M, 35mm Summicron, 50mm Summicron, and 90mm Tele_Elmarit. Thirty years ago when I last used them, I shot with the 35mm 95% of the time and sometimes with the 28. That means my primary lens on the M8 will be the 28 and I'll probably be looking for a used 21mm.

 

All but the 28 take a 39mm filter. The 28 is a second generation lens that takes 48mm filters. Leica doesn't make an IR filter in that size. You can also use series vii filters but those are held in place by the lens shade and I plan to use that only when absolutely necessary, since it intrudes a good deal into the viewfinder. Does anyone know whether a B&W filter will work adequately? I remember hearing in the 1980s that Leitz filters were actually made by B&W but I don't know whether that's still the case.

 

Finally, does anyone know how soon I have to claim my two free filters? Can I get one now and one later, say when I've bought a 21mm?

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I just took possession of a new M8 yesterday. I'm trying to decide which two free Leica IR filters to get. I have four lenses, all from the late 1970s: 28mm Elmarit-M, 35mm Summicron, 50mm Summicron, and 90mm Tele_Elmarit. Thirty years ago when I last used them, I shot with the 35mm 95% of the time and sometimes with the 28. That means my primary lens on the M8 will be the 28 and I'll probably be looking for a used 21mm.

 

All but the 28 take a 39mm filter. The 28 is a second generation lens that takes 48mm filters. Leica doesn't make an IR filter in that size. You can also use series vii filters but those are held in place by the lens shade and I plan to use that only when absolutely necessary, since it intrudes a good deal into the viewfinder. Does anyone know whether a B&W filter will work adequately? I remember hearing in the 1980s that Leitz filters were actually made by B&W but I don't know whether that's still the case.

 

Finally, does anyone know how soon I have to claim my two free filters? Can I get one now and one later, say when I've bought a 21mm?

 

My personal experience is that the B+W 486 filters when you develop DNG's with C1, give a slightly greenish cast/over saturated greens on lenses of 50mm and wider in comparison to the Leica filters. I tried both B+W and Leica on my 75 Summarit and could detect no difference at this focal length. The Leica filters are definitely not made by B+W. ? Schneider or Heliopan to Leica specs - does anyone know for certain?

 

I think you have to claim both the filters at the same time.

 

Wilson

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Wilson, I haven't noticed that when using Lightroom/CS4. I took a couple of shots yesterday with the current 28mm Elmarit - not the same lens as the original poster - and a B+W 486 filter. Example below, not the greatest image, but it looks neutral to me.

 

Maybe its a C1 thing?

 

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Wilson, I haven't noticed that when using Lightroom/CS4. I took a couple of shots yesterday with the current 28mm Elmarit - not the same lens as the original poster - and a B+W 486 filter. Example below, not the greatest image, but it looks neutral to me.

 

Maybe its a C1 thing?

 

[ATTACH]140660[/ATTACH]

 

Steve,

 

I think it is a bright sunlight thing + C1 (lots of IR around). It seemed most evident with the CZ 35 Biogon I used to have, for which of course, you cannot get a Leica filter (the Leica 43mm filter has a 43 x 0.5 mm thread against industry standard 43 x 0.75 mm thread). I cannot show you an example as all my old DNG's got marmelized when my house got struck by lightning and killed my iBook plus the attached back up drive. My Tiffs which I do still have, had their green curves adjusted.

 

Wilson

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I have used a 60mm B+W filter on a pre-aspheric 21mm Elmarit (which I do not longer own) and results were excellent, completely neutral. The lens was of course coded as itself! I think this is a matter which has to be decided by trial and error, from case to case.

 

Leica are keeping mum about their suppliers for the UV/IR filters, but it does not seem to be B+W, and some information said that the original supplier was changed.

 

The old man from the Age of the UVa Filter

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Leica are keeping mum about their suppliers for the UV/IR filters, but it does not seem to be B+W, and some information said that the original supplier was changed

 

True, at least for most. I remember when my two free filters arrived the country of origin was stated as Japan. Add to the fact that Hoya makes excellent filters as well as a lot of glass for Leica it is probable that the Japanese maker is Hoya. I read in a post recently that the filter for some of the new lenses (21'lux, 24'lun and 18SE) are made by B+W.

 

I'm using B+W filters on several of my lenses, but I've got Leica filters for the wider ones as the cyan corrections are made to match the characteristics of those. A red cast can be seen in shots taken with UV/IR filters if you get the right conditions with very high IR, like a low winter sun and lots of snow on the ground.

 

- Carl

Edited by cbretteville
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True, at least for most. I remember when my two free filters arrived the country of origin was stated as Japan. Add to the fact that Hoya makes excellent filters as well as a lot of glass for Leica it is probable that the Japanese maker is Hoya. I read in a post recently that the filter for some of the new lenses (21'lux, 24'lun and 18SE) are made by B+W.

 

I'm using B+W filters on several of my lenses, but I've got Leica filters for the wider ones as the cyan corrections are made to match the characteristics of those. A red cast can be seen in shots taken with UV/IR filters if you get the right conditions with very high IR, like a low winter sun and lots of snow on the ground.

 

- Carl

 

Carl,

 

Pink corners are also quite evident on the WATE in seascapes (a lot of IR also, maybe plus polarized IR sea reflections?) Mind you I am using the glass out of a Leica 49mm filter in a JM holder. Leica apparently said the formulation of the 60mm was slightly different and you should use the Frankenholder to avoid this - well they would, wouldn't they. I asked my optician to cut down a 60mm filter to 49mm, which I thought would be easy enough since they do this all the time to fit spectacle frames but after a lot of teeth sucking and head shaking, he declined.

 

Wilson

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My personal experience is that the B+W 486 filters when you develop DNG's with C1, give a slightly greenish cast/over saturated greens on lenses of 50mm and wider in comparison to the Leica filters. I tried both B+W and Leica on my 75 Summarit and could detect no difference at this focal length. The Leica filters are definitely not made by B+W. ? Schneider or Heliopan to Leica specs - does anyone know for certain?

 

I think you have to claim both the filters at the same time.

 

Wilson

 

Hoya

 

Woody

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I just tested my Biogon 24mm ZM (coded as a 24mm Elmarit) with both B+W 486 and Leica UV/IR filter under identical conditions on a subject with lots of white all over. The colours are not absolutely identical. Still, both must be considered neutral, with B+W slightly cooler than Leica. The effect is small however, and minuscule compared to the vagaries of natural light.

 

What is important it that these effects are all-over -- there is no discernible colour shift in the direction of the corners. Meaning that serious nitpickers can pick their nits in PP.

 

The old man from the Age of A36 Filters

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I just tested my Biogon 24mm ZM (coded as a 24mm Elmarit) with both B+W 486 and Leica UV/IR filter under identical conditions on a subject with lots of white all over. The colours are not absolutely identical. Still, both must be considered neutral, with B+W slightly cooler than Leica. The effect is small however, and minuscule compared to the vagaries of natural light.

 

What is important it that these effects are all-over -- there is no discernible colour shift in the direction of the corners. Meaning that serious nitpickers can pick their nits in PP.

 

The old man from the Age of A36 Filters

 

Lars,

 

Were you taking in DNG and converting in C1? If you were then it is case of total surrender or maybe C1 has improved. When I was getting the oversaturated greens on the 35 Biogon with a B+W filter, I was still using C1 v3.7.7. Perhaps I would have got oversaturated greens with a Leica filter as well. The only Leica lenses I had at the time were the 50/2.8 Elmar and 90/2.8 Elmarit, which did not seem to give the green effect, using Leica filters. I changed to a 35 Summilux ASPH at about the same time as I upgraded to C1 v4.x, so I don't know if it was the lens, the filter or C1, that meant I no longer had to adjust to trim back green saturation for images taken with a 35mm lens.

 

Wilson

Edited by wlaidlaw
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Thanks for weighing in, everyone. I think for the time being I'll keep on shooting without any IR filter; I certainly haven't noticed any problems so far. When I do, I'll get the B&W and a coding kit.

 

And if I have to get both free filters at the same time, I'll wait until I've found an affordable 21mm, then I'll get one filter for that lens and the other in 39mm, which will fit my 35 'cron as well as the 50.

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The C1 color question probably comes down to profiles. The "M8 With IR-cut filter" profiles in C1 are intended for the camera with the Leica filters. Custom profiling should fix any problems with the colors found with the 486 filters. Custom color profiles are often a good idea in any case, of course.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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