rosuna Posted May 4, 2009 Share #1 Posted May 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) A new article by Puts: The CRF concept Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 4, 2009 Posted May 4, 2009 Hi rosuna, Take a look here Erwin Puts on the future of the Leica M system. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted May 4, 2009 Share #2 Posted May 4, 2009 Oh dear, of all the adjectives you could use to accurately describe Erwin's writing, "concise" is not one of them. Would anyone care to summarise in 10 words or less? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share #3 Posted May 4, 2009 Well... he doesn't go direct to the point... of focus. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted May 4, 2009 Share #4 Posted May 4, 2009 Would anyone care to summarise in 10 words or less? Is there a future for a Leica CRF ? Perhaps. (nine words ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted May 4, 2009 Share #5 Posted May 4, 2009 Oh dear, of all the adjectives you could use to accurately describe Erwin's writing, "concise" is not one of them. Would anyone care to summarise in 10 words or less? ...Erwin Puts - again, too much heat and not enough light. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted May 4, 2009 Share #6 Posted May 4, 2009 Oh dear, of all the adjectives you could use to accurately describe Erwin's writing, "concise" is not one of them. Would anyone care to summarise in 10 words or less? Summary: - CRF = coupled range finder. - CRF, not promising. u4/3, promising. - (questionable point about CRF focusing and framing being separate, SLR together.) - (questionable points about simplicity.) - (...verbiage...) - CRF advantages slipping. What remains: clarity of finder, accuracy of focus (sic). - (...verbiage and some abuse of German terms...) - manual focus roolz. - (questionable points.) - modern lens design + antiquated body design = problems. - view of scene doesn't change when lens changes. (Ed.: interesting...) - simpler interface (M8): ok. AF, automation, not ok. There is no real point to the article, and no conclusion. There is a (lot of) discussion about history and properties of the CRF especially compared to the SLR, but it doesn't go anywhere. I like Puts' writing in general, and I have his Leica Lens book, but he does need to slim things down and get to the point quicker. It is way too easy to get lost in his sea of words. As Mark Twain once wrote: "I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead." Erwin Puts needs to spend more time refining his articles to discuss the salient points more concisely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted May 4, 2009 Author Share #7 Posted May 4, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think he is discussing the possibility of an evolution in the M system towards a EVF camera. The M system can be developed in that direction. I think the M system can offer two different types of cameras and lenses, with partial compatibility: an EVF M camera with AF lenses, and a rangefinder M camera with manual focus lenses. You can use one type of lens on the other type of camera, if you like. Erwin Puts says the two types are far different. I agree, but they can share a basic set of specifications (mount, mount to flange distance, etc.). The M system can support a Micro4/3-like evolutive variant... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted May 4, 2009 Share #8 Posted May 4, 2009 From a speed read, to me he's saying Leica lens quality isn't relevant because you will photoshop your images to get the contrast and sharpness you want and why bother with a rangefinder when you have EVF's and AF. I think Immodium for the brain is the answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
apitong Posted May 4, 2009 Share #9 Posted May 4, 2009 what a piece of crap - just make a short statement instead of an article that puts everyone asleep halfway. dominee Erwin - please find a new church! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted May 4, 2009 Share #10 Posted May 4, 2009 (edited) Quite an historical interesting article, but as usual, answers a question without giving an answer. And Puts is not the only one in doing this. Edited May 4, 2009 by epand56 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted May 4, 2009 Share #11 Posted May 4, 2009 A panasonic G1 with an M shape and glass...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 4, 2009 Share #12 Posted May 4, 2009 Quite an historical interesting article, but as usual, answers a question without giving an answer. And Puts is not the only one in doing this. I disagree. It answers a question that had no relevance in the first place, so the answer poses nothing but irrelevant questions. A favorite ploy of journalists. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted May 5, 2009 Share #13 Posted May 5, 2009 I disagree. It answers a question that had no relevance in the first place, so the answer poses nothing but irrelevant questions. A favorite ploy of journalists. He sets out to answer his own question without giving an answer - a favourite pastime of a school teacher... note to diary don't ask school teachers or journalists questions, unless you have the answer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brill64 Posted May 5, 2009 Share #14 Posted May 5, 2009 it's an informative synopsis at macro level. i see it almost as a challenge to take the issue a step further. please be a little more open-minded Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted May 5, 2009 Share #15 Posted May 5, 2009 it's an informative synopsis at macro level. i see it almost as a challenge to take the issue a step further. please be a little more open-minded Don't worry it's only lighthearted. (synopsis? ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thompsonkirk Posted May 5, 2009 Share #16 Posted May 5, 2009 I turned to this article after reading some of the comments above, & thought there might be some redeeming point that others were missing. My quest wasn't worth repeating: I didn't find any & can't advise anyone to spend time looking for one. If he has a point, it's that rangefinders are made for manual focusing; so if you were to put autofocus in a rangefinder camera, you'd eliminate the need for the rangefinder. Duh. Kirk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryk34 Posted May 5, 2009 Share #17 Posted May 5, 2009 I didnt' read the article after hearing all the great reviews. But I have an M6, M8, and now G1. The crf of the M8 is still much better than the electronic view finder of the new G1. And the sensor of the M8 is still much better in my opinion. But . . . the future may be opening up here. Look at the recent incredible improvements in the LCD viewing screens on the back of the new Nikon DSLRs compared to the first ones. If the electronic viewfinders pioneered by Panasonic on the G1 improve 100-200% over the next few years and if improved full-frame sensors appear, then you have the ingredients of a new type of M camera on which to use all those wonderful lenses. That's a fairly short version of a possible future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daubsphoto Posted May 5, 2009 Share #18 Posted May 5, 2009 It seems to me that rangefinder shooting and SLR shooting are fundamentally different beasts. I know I get different kinds of photos depending on the kind of camera I use, and that's not about glass or sensors or anything but the way a person interacts with his or her camera. Large format cameras still exist, not because you can't do much of what they do in photoshop or with today's huge resolution sensors, but because some people prefer the approach of these cameras. I mean, the M-series has been a small niche in the camera world for a long, long time, and I don't think that's changing. But it will stay around because it offers a kind of shooting you can't get with the SLR--or at least something I can't feel with an SLR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_livsey Posted May 5, 2009 Share #19 Posted May 5, 2009 If he has a point, it's that rangefinders are made for manual focusing; so if you were to put autofocus in a rangefinder camera, you'd eliminate the need for the rangefinder. Kirk Yes but If we don't go the arms length rear screen route you will still need to frame. Autofocus didn't eliminate the need for an SLR to have a screen, although it is now exceedingly difficult to actually manual focus on the screens fitted it is possible. Does this article actually help me with understanding my photography now? Does it in any way clarify the future route for Leica ? Will it generate three pages of comment ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevidon Posted May 5, 2009 Share #20 Posted May 5, 2009 The AF RF was tried by Contax (Kyocera) in the G1 and G2. I have the G2 in addition to the later acquired M8 and M4P. It's AF works reasonably well, but the manual focus is strictly an option and while it works, it is very slow. Add to that the fact that it took a special motorized lens mount to adapt the superb CZ lenses to the system and you end up with a camera that has lenses unique to that body and unusable on any other. Admittedly, the M series Leica is and always will be a nitch camera, but it has the advantage of being able to use the first lens ever made by Leitz as well as the latest made by Leica. Leave well enough alone. There are so many high quality AF cameras out there that any attempt to adapt is a losing proposition. I'm sure that Leica, given it's long time association with Panasonic will eventually come out with it's own version of the G, but it will not replace the Leica M when it comes to bright finder usability and fast action photography until the LCD finder solves it's slow refresh rate problems. So leave well enough alone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.