M8 - to buy or not to buy?

[chris_tribble]

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Lots of advice already. My 2 cents.

 

1/ if you want it and have the assets get it. If you REALLY have to sell the M6 then that's a financial decision - but you won't get that much for it and there is an argument for keeping it as a backup - it's not a camera that's ever going to be really superseded.

 

2/ DON'T assume that shifting to digital is cost and effort free. If you've never done digital processing, there's a learning curve. Worth it, but it's an effort. My 2 cents again:

1. You need enough RAM (4GB minimum if you're stuck with Vista - don't know about Macs) If you're a PC user and yours isn't up to scratch, Dell Precision Workstations are very good value
   
2. You need a decent video card with DVI out. Not a top end 3D gamers card, but good enough
   
3. make sure that you've got a good enough monitor and that you can calibrate your workflow. I'm perfectly happy with a 20" Dell which cost around £170 - you can live without huge and expensive Lacie / Apple etc,
   
4. You need something to calibrate your monitor to ensure reliable colour reproduction. Check Eye-One.
   
5. You've got to learn to work with RAW. Don't start with JPEGS unless you need them for immediate press purposes - and even then it's probably not the best way of working...
   
6. You need appropriate software to PROCESS and also ARCHIVE your images. I use Lightroom, Mac users seem to use Aperture. I really think you need one or the other. If you're broke by now, then Photoshop Elements is surprisingly comptentent. The limitation of C1 which comes with the Leica is that it doesn't help you archive your images (I think - willing to stand corrected there)
   

 

But also - you ask the question "should I buy an M8".

Answer: Yes!

[jaapv]

No, C1 is not an advisable archive program. But there is a neat little program called "ImageIngester" that will help you archive your shots to date folders as you download your caerd.

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[GaryBrighton]

I am lucky enough to have a decent Mac, Lightroom 2 and am used to working digitally so don't have that additional expense, fortunately.

 

My issue is more with the fact I'd be spending £2K on what some would see as a fundamentally flawed camera. For instance, a friend who's a pro thinks I should spend the money on the D700 Nikon and opt out of Leica altogether.

 

However, as we all know, there's something about the L word and working with an M slows me down and makes me think more.

 

Plus, for my Nikon kit the S5 pro suits me already so don't need to change it.

[offshore]

I am lucky enough to have a decent Mac, Lightroom 2 and am used to working digitally so don't have that additional expense, fortunately.

 

My issue is more with the fact I'd be spending £2K on what some would see as a fundamentally flawed camera. For instance, a friend who's a pro thinks I should spend the money on the D700 Nikon and opt out of Leica altogether.

 

However, as we all know, there's something about the L word and working with an M slows me down and makes me think more.

 

Plus, for my Nikon kit the S5 pro suits me already so don't need to change it.

Gary this is the kind of post that gets all kinds of advice about what you should do. Take the advice for its value, it's free. Most forum members, who post this kind of thread, really already know what they're going to do but come here to have a stamp of approval put on it by strangers. If you're not a pro making a decision about equipment as a tool to make you a living that's based on the kind of photography you do to make that living then this is an exercise in self indulgence. If you want a M8 then buy one, it's only a "flawed" camera if you see it that way. I heard about all the "flaws" before I bought mine and decided to turn the "flaws" into photography that now makes me money.

[jaapv]

 

My issue is more with the fact I'd be spending £2K on what some would see as a fundamentally flawed camera. For instance, a friend who's a pro thinks I should spend the money on the D700 Nikon and opt out of Leica altogether.

 

Depends on the definition of flawed I would say. For me the D700 is fundamentally flawed

Flaw 1. Because it is not a rangefinder camera.

Flaw 2. Because the lenses are not as good as Leica M lenses

Flaw 3. Because it (and especially the zoomlenses) are bulky

Flaw 4. Because I never was able to work out which button to push for what effect.

 

I mean to say: one man's poison may be another man's ambrosia. You will have to decide what works best for you. About "issues" and technical glitches, be aware of the incredible magnifying effect of Internet forums, especially on subjects charged with a high emotional content like the Leica brand.

 

Then we get the effect that the M8 may be a high-end digital camera, but on a photographic level it is a tool from a past era. An era when a photographer was expected to know his theory and the quirks of his tools to obtain the best effects.

As an example: a phenomen like focus shift to a Leica M user is liable to get a "-yes - that exists and is due to spherical aberration on very fast lenses and the workarounds are such and such" whilst a present day DSLR user will react with : "this is an issue; it does not function correctly!" (sorry for the rather rough generalisation;))

If you can get into that mindset and learn to work with the camera instead of having the camera work (think) for you the M8 is the nearly flawless camera and all others are just makeshift picture taking machines....

Edited May 4, 2009 by jaapv

[GaryBrighton]

I'd agree that one mans meat is another's poison. I use the term 'flawed' for want of a better one. By definition, all cameras are flawed, some more than others.

 

The method of working with a range finder has always to me been complementary to working with an SLR, just different and I enjoy both experiences. I take different pictures with each.

 

And to some extent I am using this thread to hep me make my mind up.

 

I'm going to visit my local Leica dealer in Sussex, Baker's of Lewes, to have a look at and try out the M8 and I'll take a memory card along with me so as I can see image quality when I get home before making any final decisions.

 

The other option would be to rent one first, however (unless anyone knows different) I haven't found anyone offering this service.

[jaapv]

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That is true, Gary. I'm a bit a fifty/fifty person, or maybe 60/40 for the RF. But many DSLR users on this forum have found that the M8 went a bit further than the average rangefinder in that it has pushed their DSLR to the background. You'll find image quality to be the least of your concerns, I can guarantee you that one.

[fotografr]

 

The other option would be to rent one first, however (unless anyone knows different) I haven't found anyone offering this service.

 

I know there are some dealers in the USA who rent the M8.2 for $100/week for "test drives." There may be dealers in your area who will do the same.

 

As for your friend's advice, I also shoot professionally and maintain a Canon DSLR system along with my M8 system. I would not agree that the M8 is "fundamentally flawed." It is just a tool which has limitations. Likewise, the D700 has a different set of limitations. ANY camera does. For what it's worth, I enjoy shooting with the M8 more than any camera I've ever owned and I find the image quality to be superb. The only time I pick up one of my Canons is when I absolutely have to, such as when I need to use long lenses or fast zooms.

Edited May 4, 2009 by fotografr

[rycm]

Let's see.. I have a M7, a MP (LHSA - hammertone with matching 35mm cron), and a M8.2. So far, ton of shots with the M8.2. The film camera are in the dry box, and fired to keep the gears running. Film are hard to come by nowadays, and good processing labs are expensive. With the M8, and photoshop with Nik Software suite, I get all my processing done, a whole lot cheaper and faster. Can't bear to sell off the film gear as I really love the looks of the MP and M7. But have a Contax G2 which I will happily sell.

[wda]

 

I already have 2 decent lenses, the f2 35mm Summicron ASPH and the f2.8 90mm Elmarit M which I'll keep. They'll need to be coded I presume but know nothing about how that works. Could I use them without them being coded? What focal lengths will they give me on the digital sensor?

 

Any thoughts, opinions and advice would be very welcome

 

Thanks

 

Gary

Gary, try both lenses before deciding to have them coded. Of the two, you may decide to convert the 35mm Summicron. If the flanges are in stock, Leica UK Milton Keynes will do the job while you wait if you pre-arrange it. They can modify Elmarits and Summicrons only; the rest go to Solms)

 

Many would-be M8 buyers are/were put off by reported problems. The M8 now is a mature camera. I bought mine in March and I am absolutely delighted with it. Shoot RAW. In LR2.0 you will be amazed at the quality of the ACR conversion even before you tweak the controls. Good luck!

[keithop]

And to some extent I am using this thread to hep me make my mind up.

 

I'm going to visit my local Leica dealer in Sussex, Baker's of Lewes, to have a look at and try out the M8 and I'll take a memory card along with me so as I can see image quality when I get home before making any final decisions.

 

I'm in exactly the same boat as you and did exactly that. I came home with some hastily taken M8 photos and I keep looking at them thinking, although they're rubbish shots, framed poorly of trivial shop fronts, there's a "look" about them which I really like. All I can think is what I could do with the M8 given some time with it.

 

I already have a Nikon D3, superb of course but HUGE, different and it stays at home. My friends are all advising a D700 as the answer and of course to SOME of my points it would be an answer. It's smaller than the D3, great in low light and excellent image quality.

 

Somehow though, I just keep looking at those M8 files. Perhaps it's my imagination but with zero care and on my first trek to the store, I already think I see something I don't see in my Nikon files.

 

I also really enjoyed getting back to manual focus. Yep ok I could buy a split focus screen for my Nikon and perhaps get back to it somewhat, but there was a real buzz and satisfaction with the M8.

 

I admit that I'm a bit concerned about certain issues.. IR, reliability and so on but I also know these are amplified by the Internet.

 

The other option would be to rent one first, however (unless anyone knows different) I haven't found anyone offering this service.

 

I looked and couldnt find anyone in the UK though there's a place in Florida Dale-Photo that has a banner ad up at the top of this forum that does it in the states. A week rental would I suspect see my mind fully made up but it doesn't look like that's going to be an option.

[jcraf]

Hi Gary

 

I can't add much to what's already been said. I recently moved from a D3 plus the 'holy trinity' of 'pro' f2.8 Nikkors, to a pair of M8s, and a handful of lenses including the WATE. Great, the Nikon D3, but also Great Big. Not good for London street photography, especially at the moment, sadly.

 

I haven't regretted the move at all. I am an amateur; I missed my MP and the joy of M photography. I now have that back again, and I am happy that I have captured the essence of what I was getting with the MP and film scans.

 

I don't think you'll regret the M8, but don't sell the M6 if you can find a way round the financial need to do so. Strangely enough, I'm thinking of a reasonably-priced M6 right now, to allow me get full-frame results with the wonderful WATE (at least until a FF M9, or whatever, comes along).

[Lasex]

If you buy a M8, my advice is only to buy one that you can test yourself. Take some shots at high ISO of some white surface (out of focus) and take some carefully focused shots at close range with large aperture like f2. Take the memory card and upload these files into your computer and study the shots carefully: look for vertical banding at high ISO and look critically at the focus in close range wide aperture shots. There are M8's which have faults out of the box. My new M8 has the vertical banding defect, for instance. You get one that is flawless.

 

I think you could sell your M6 - it isn't the last working film Leica in the world. If you want to go back to film some day, you can certainly get a decent film M body for a quite reasonable price.

[GaryBrighton]

jcraf

 

Thanks for that. I've PM'ed you too.

[lovelyleica]

For me an M8 does not replace an M6 or more generally a traditional Film camera. It is actually 2 complementary Leica ways of producing wonderful images. But in my opinion you can be very satisfied by doing M8 pictures only, just be prepared of maybe a different feeling in doing pictures, but anyway digital pictures produced (which is the goal, camera is only an instrument) are terrific.

 

Just for your information I already reserved my M9 (it will normally be the 2nd one available here in Switzerland as a friend reserved the 1st one) coming end of this year.

 

M9 Specs : 18.5 Mpx full frame, same size as current M8, NO IR problem anymore, ... it will be a first class WINNER for Leica fans !!!

[gwelland]

Just for your information I already reserved my M9 (it will normally be the 2nd one available here in Switzerland as a friend reserved the 1st one) coming end of this year.

 

M9 Specs : 18.5 Mpx full frame, same size as current M8, NO IR problem anymore, ... it will be a first class WINNER for Leica fans !!!

 

I was thinking that this thread has been going for too long without someone perking up with discussion of a non existent imaginary camera .... at this point we typically morph the thread into a 'what I want in an M9, why non-FF sucks and can I have a manual winder' discussion. (also followed by an obligatory picture of the cat or a Noctilux capture)

Edited May 4, 2009 by gwelland

[lovelyleica]

Imaginary M9 ??? Sorry but info comes from VERY reliable source. I am not here to lose time writing non sense infos...

[Nicoleica]

I was thinking that this thread has been going for too long without someone perking up with discussion of a non existent imaginary camera .... at this point we typically morph the thread into a 'what I want in an M9, why non-FF sucks and can I have a manual winder' discussion. (also followed by an obligatory picture of the cat or a Noctilux capture)

 

So, if the M9 is almost a reality, I suppose we'd better start discussing what's wrong with it, and what we want in the M10? Shall we start the ball rolling with 'I'd like holographic storage cards so that we can see what's on them by holding them up the light.' :confused:

[gwelland]

Imaginary M9 ??? Sorry but info comes from VERY reliable source. I am not here to lose time writing non sense infos...

 

Friendly wager: If you turn up here with your M9 before the end of this decade I'll happily eat my hat. Of course, I don't wear a hat but I'll buy one ...

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[delander †]

 

My issue is more with the fact I'd be spending £2K on what some would see as a fundamentally flawed camera. For instance, a friend who's a pro thinks I should spend the money on the D700 Nikon and opt out of Leica altogether.

 

However, as we all know, there's something about the L word and working with an M slows me down and makes me think more.

 

 

Hi Gary,

 

I'm a member of a local camera club and we just had our annual public exhibition. I put in 6 prints and I was pleasantly surprised when a member of the public, who it turns out was an experienced photographer, asked me what camera I used. I said well its not the camera its the photographer and he said it was a Leica wasn't it. Was it an M8? Well 5 of my 6 prints were from M8 photographs, the other from my Canon.

 

A discussion followed and I cant really put my finger on it but somehow he recognised the M8 look in the photos. I did say that the camera had had a bad press and a few problems of which he was unaware.

 

So as I feel rather good from that experience I would advise you to bite the bullet - it is great camera.

 

Jeff