Summilux 21 or 24?

[rosuna]

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Did you read Ben's essay on it in "The Man in the Crowd"? Ben edited "Stock Photographs" with Winogrand.

 

No. It is a book I have pre-selected in Amazon, but the second-hand prices are very high...

[sean_reid]

I want but... the cost of the gear would multiply.

R.

 

CV 21/4.0 - cheap and very good

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[sean_reid]

No. It is a book I have pre-selected in Amazon, but the second-hand prices are very high...

 

When you read it you may find that some of your ideas about Winogrand shift.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Ecar]

CV 21/4.0 - cheap and very good

 

Couldn't agree more. Only problem is that I like it so much that I also had to get the Leica 21/1.4:p...

Incidentally, this confirms why it's in Leica's best (financial) interest to have some form of competition.

Edited May 4, 2009 by Ecar

[sean_reid]

So you have both now - that's a great combo.

 

Cheers,

 

S

[innerimager]

Lovely thread, thanks to all who have contributed. My thinking about this decision is heavily influenced by my love of the 24 elmarit. I look forward to seeing Sean's full comparison of the new, clearly excellent 28/3.8 to the 24/2.8, but there is a brilliance to the 24/2.8 that grabs me. I had a black version and, let's just say I, less than brilliantly, sold it to fund a used M7/0.85. I love that camera but missed the 24/2.8 and found a chrome sample which in addition to the optical quality has a tactile pleasure that is almost unique in the leica lenses I have used. So, I really can't see replacing it with the 24 lux, and certainly can't justify both, as I might with the smaller, lighter 3.8 as a second 24mm lens.

 

I certainly appreciate Sean's opinion about wanting to keep his eye on the range finder wide open and not needing an external finder with the 24 lux. I find however that if I am so intent on very selective focus, that in a frame as large as the 21mm lens, I feel I can cheat and not be 100% certain about the edges of the frame, that is I would look through the external finder to get the rough frame, and then look only through the internal finder while taking those shots. I'd chimp to confirm I was within tolerable limits of my intended frame, cheating on the loose side, content to crop. Stopped down I would be zone focusing and using the external finder only. And...I really want a true 28/1.4 on my M8, just as I have found my 28/1.4 nikkor spends lot's of time on my D3, where it rarely did on the 1.5 nikon sensors. So...it will be the 21/1.4 for me, which I'll also look forward to using on my film bodies. Not saying when, just which I'll eventually go for. best....Peter

Edited May 5, 2009 by innerimager

[sean_reid]

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Lovely thread, thanks to all who have contributed. My thinking about this decision is heavily influenced by my love of the 24 elmarit. I look forward to seeing Sean's full comparison of the new, clearly excellent 28/3.5 to the 24/2.8,

 

You mean the 24/3.8?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[innerimager]

You mean the 24/3.8?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

yes, of course- I'll correct the mistake. best...Peter

[sean_reid]

yes, of course- I'll correct the mistake. best...Peter

 

The 24/2.8 is one of those lenses that many people, myself included, really warm to.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Gentleman Villain]

You mean the 24/3.8?

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

I'm really lusting for the 24 3.8 after reading your review and getting to handle it a bit at PMA. That is one sweet lens!

[marknorton]

I have bought both (though I don't yet have the 21mm) but I expect the 24mm lens will be more useful and more used. For me, it comes down to the 21mm exceeding the limits of the viewfinder.

 

The rationale for using an aux finder rests on the ability to zone focus for at least some of the time - put the 21mm Elmarit on, even more so the WATE and (I suppose) the Super-Elmar, select your aperture and focus zone and you can point and shoot without necessarily metering and checking focus on every shot.

 

If you want to use that wide-open potential of the 21mm, zone focussing is now much less an option and you'll either be switching back and forth between finders to check focus and framing or else concentrating on one at the expense of the other. That will undoubtedly make the lens less easy to use.

[sean_reid]

I'm really lusting for the 24 3.8 after reading your review and getting to handle it a bit at PMA. That is one sweet lens!

 

Absolutely. I'll have the technical testing published within a week or so but it sings even in formal testing.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[jaapv]

I have bought both (though I don't yet have the 21mm) but I expect the 24mm lens will be more useful and more used.

Agreed. Exactly my rationale for getting the 24.

[guidomo]

Thanks again to everyone for providing helpful comments. I have now decided for the 24.

[manolo]

Whichever fast wide you get, think about a tiny slow wide to go with it. When the light went down, Winogrand often stayed stopped down and went to flash.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

 

Sean, have you tried the 25/3.4 canon? I think it is a grate lens to have and use (in the M8) eventhough it is hard to find because they don't make it any more.

 

I have both the 21 & 25 zeis ZM's and find that (also only in the M8) I use the 21 90% of the time but I think that the 21 would be too wide for me on a ff M.

 

grate thread

[Jamie Roberts]

I have bought both (though I don't yet have the 21mm) but I expect the 24mm lens will be more useful and more used. For me, it comes down to the 21mm exceeding the limits of the viewfinder.

 

{snipped}.

 

You know Mark, we're usually in synch on these things but I have to say that I loved using my 21 Elmarit but never used an auxillary finder on the M8.

 

Now, I'm shooting people, not landscapes, so pixel-exact framing was never my thing.

 

But even wanting "mostly correct" frames, I find that with the framelines the M8 brings up with a 21 attached, it's really easy to divide the frame in horizontal and vertical thirds (the framelines give you that). So I can place subjects in areas of interest and play with the lens without shifting my vision to the finder at all.

 

If I keep my other eye open I can easily "see" what the lens will cover. Note this is not the same for other ultra-wides (like the CV 15 or 12) though again, if you have the ability to chimp and precise framing isn't an issue, a finder is very, very rarely a necessity.

[marknorton]

I take your point Jamie and with a smaller 21, I agree with you. With the Elmarit (especially with a smaller hood) and the WATE set at 21mm, I rarely feel the need for the finder. However, the Summilux is a big lens and even breaks into the 90mm frame, only just leaving the rangefinder patch uncovered.

 

I find I tend to position my subject too high in the frame when there a big obstruction from the lens - being doing it again today - so I think an external finder with this lens is needed, for me at least.

[rdubois]

You know Mark, we're usually in synch on these things but I have to say that I loved using my 21 Elmarit but never used an auxillary finder on the M8.

 

Now, I'm shooting people, not landscapes, so pixel-exact framing was never my thing.

 

But even wanting "mostly correct" frames, I find that with the framelines the M8 brings up with a 21 attached, it's really easy to divide the frame in horizontal and vertical thirds (the framelines give you that). So I can place subjects in areas of interest and play with the lens without shifting my vision to the finder at all.

 

If I keep my other eye open I can easily "see" what the lens will cover. Note this is not the same for other ultra-wides (like the CV 15 or 12) though again, if you have the ability to chimp and precise framing isn't an issue, a finder is very, very rarely a necessity.

 

Jamie, I'd love to know whether your technique would in practice work well with this larger lens. Like Mark I'm reluctant to use 2 viewfinders (actually I don't believe I would be able to successfully cope with the continual switch from one viewfinder to the other) and this issue is for the moment preventing me from ordering this clearly very desirable lens.

 

Dubois