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Forgive me for asking but, did you hit the correct combination? I've got the CV 15 and its fantastic. Can't wait for the rangefinder coupled version to arrive in stock.

  • Correctly coded lens;
  • Correct bayonet adapter size;
  • selected correct focal length when turning on the camera;
  • using an ir cut filter
  • camera settings for lens coding on?

Best

Rob

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Yes they look awful, but they look awful because you really do need to code wide angle lenses on the M8. So the optical vignette is affected by aperture (you say there should be none, and there isn't), but the colour vignette will be there regardless of aperture, because that's inherent to the M8's design (a microlens / angle issue, IIRC).

 

The easy solution is to code the lens (as an 18mm) and then the camera will compensate for the cyan corners. Or Cornerfix will fix them; or you can do it yourself in LAB mode in PS, where you will only affect the colour and not the luminance.

I think the cyan drift is affected by aperture too, Jamie, and focus as well. Both change the angle of incidence on the sensor.....

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"Well...explain this...

the first pic is with Lens detection ON+IR, on uncoded lens VC 15"

 

Yep. The lens MUST BE CODED for lens detection to work, otherwise there is nothing to detect.

 

"2nd pic is Lens detecton OFF, on uncoded lens VC15"

 

Yep. With lens detection turned off, the M8 will not correct the green corners even with a coded lens.

 

Color M8 photography requires IR/UV filters, which requires coded lenses (especially wider than 50mm) to avoid green corners, which are only detected if the camera is set to ON+IR.

 

It's a package deal - you can't skip any step.

 

With the c/v 15mm, if you use the original screw-mount version with an adapter - the adapter also has to be for the correct frameline set to match the coding (28/90 if coded as a 16/28/21 WATE or a 21 prime; 50/75 if coded as an 18mm Elmar). The M8 detects both the coding and the framelines the lens mount brings up, and if they don't match, it skips the corrections.

 

Below is a shot with a 15 c/v, coded as WATE, 28/90 lens mount, set to "16mm" in the WATE camera menu. No post-processing corrections, but with the saturation boosted to make any color shifts more obvious:

 

 

----------

 

Edit: Oh, for Bog's Sake, Alan!

 

"Color M8 photography requires IR/UV filters, which requires coded lenses (especially wider than 50mm) to avoid green corners, which are only detected if the camera is set to ON+IR. It's a package deal - you can't skip any step"

 

That's hardly a long instruction manual - it has fewer words than a 1Ds has buttons!

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Edited by adan
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Edit: Oh, for Bog's Sake, Alan!

 

"Color M8 photography requires IR/UV filters, which requires coded lenses (especially wider than 50mm) to avoid green corners, which are only detected if the camera is set to ON+IR. It's a package deal - you can't skip any step"

 

That's hardly a long instruction manual - it has fewer words than a 1Ds has buttons!

 

I looked at the Leica web site and they don't mention the need for using filters at all.

 

I found the following to be a bit cryptic as it doesn't clearly say that the additional UV/IR filter is something you have to put on the lens or is already installed on the sensor. If you didn't adequately research the camera elsewhere before purchase how would you know?

-----------------

"Low-noise CCD sensor specially optimized for the requirements of the M lens system. Pixels: 10.3 million. Dimensions: 18 mm x 27 mm. Extension factor: 1.33 x. Aspect ratio 3:2. Coverglass thickness 0.5 mm, full suppression of infrared light by additional UV/IR filter. Moiré filter: no, but full exploitation of the lens capabilities by Moiré fringe detection and elimination by digital signal processing.

---------------

Anyway most of the buttons on cameras have become pretty familiar to experienced photographers. And experienced photographers may assume that if they set a camera to Raw, set the ISO and other exposure controls manually, they wouldn't have to study the manual to use the camera. (One can study the manual later if there are things that aren't clear from looking at the controls and the menu.) But if you do that with an M8 you run the risk of getting poor color due to not having the filter/menu/coding set correctly for a given lens.

 

I can remember using the Kodak SLRc (Canon lens version of SLRn - DCS14n.) It had an issue of uneven color that was somewhat addressed via a lens menu. But the lens compensation could alternately be applied using a similar adjustment via the Kodak raw conversion software. So your raw pictures weren't ruined if you forgot to index the lens correctly. Leica should have something similar that comes with the camera.

 

The existence of a program such as Cornerfix, indicates that one may need to be aware of this issue and the need to take additional steps to compensate for uneven color if it crops up. In my opinion this is not as simple as setting a camera to raw and adjusting exposure manually - which is possible on every dslr I've seen.

Edited by AlanG
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I have been shooting with the M8 (FW2.002) and a VC15 (f8 or f5.6) with IR filter in a few assignements recently. When I came home these were the results, simply horrible and unusable. As you can see the center is more red, while the corners are more green, over-all the white-balance is way, way off. There is no way I can sell this to a customer and getting it right will be a horrorjob. The 3th pic is from a D200 in the same circumstances as the 2nd. White ballance dead on and only some curve adjusting required

 

I wonder when the point comes I had enough of this and sell the stuff, I simply do not trust it anymore...

 

Considering the information you've given about the cameras you used for the different shots, the solution seems fairly obvious.

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I'll keep this thread in mind when others say that the M8 is a simple camera that doesn't require a long instruction manual.

 

In fact it is a simple camera. You just have to turn a couple rings and push a button.

As any other tool, someone has a special affinity with it some others don't.

Nothing wrong with it, one just have to find the right tool for his needs.

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In fact it is a simple camera. You just have to turn a couple rings and push a button.

As any other tool, someone has a special affinity with it some others don't.

Nothing wrong with it, one just have to find the right tool for his needs.

 

So simple that when my friend brought me one to try out, he forgot to give me the IR filter.

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So simple that when my friend brought me one to try out, he forgot to give me the IR filter.

 

Alan, we can also play with words if you prefer. I had nevere used a RF camera before I bought the M8 one year and a half ago. The day after i bought it i knew already I had to use UV/IR filters and ordered my two free filters from Leica.

On this forum anybody knows that, there are hundreds of threads about it.

IMO it is not the the fact you have to use a filter to make a camera complicated.

I saw huge Canons and Nikons i did not almost know how to switch them on.

But again, anyone must find the right tool for his needs. And maybe it is not the M8.

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My same friend did not think to utilize the live view capability on the 5 Canons that he owned. (I'm not 100% syure if he even knew they had live view.) And that is pretty simple too... press one button that is next to the viewfinder. And this man is a very top level pro.

 

My point is that on the surface cameras and taking pictures is a very simple proposition. And perhaps using some cameras is easier than using others. But if you really are interested in being a good photographer and you want to get the most out of the equipment, and not mess up either, you have to put effort behind it whether that means reading a few hundred threads on the M8 forum or the 5D owners manual.

 

How many times have people said they prefer to use an M8 because they have to understand what they are doing and perhaps work a little harder at it than using an automatic camera? I can respect that attitude.

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I love using an M camera, I set the f-stop and correct distance and shoot at sight

 

but I get to the point that too many little issues spoil the fun

 

-unexpected hangings (remove battery to solve) even with FW 2.004

-corrupt files every now and then

-idiotic on/off switch

-dangerous to use it in moist conditions (not the slightest weather protection), I lost an M8 that way

-still unreliable WB (although much better than at start)

-poor yet very expensive service

-Issues with the VC15

 

I just feel reluctant to use it, I simply do not trust it like I do my other much less expensive gear. I bet for most there are tweaks to solve it but I don't want paper-clip solutions where everything has to be exactly right to get to a reliable result. I never missed a shot with my D200 due to technical camera issues, I missed several with my M8 (see above) sometimes simply because the switch accidently got into self-timer mode....aaaargghhh

 

and I can live with the filters, had UV filters before to protect my costly lensen so why care about IR filters.

 

I have my serious doubt that coding the VC15 will solve the issue. I do have pictures made with it that are just great, but it seems high IR/sunny conditions is too much of a problem with it.

 

(I tried coding it with a paper mask I printed from Leica M8 Lens Codes and a permanent marker but it failed)

Edited by imported_reinierv
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Carsten, you are perhaps being a tad severe. We all make mistakes.

 

Well, there are personal mistakes followed by humility, and then there are mistakes of professional (in)competence followed by improper blame-laying. Here we have a guy who claims to be doing a job with this kit, who bought an M8 and a CV15 (not VC15), and didn't do due diligence to find out that it needs an IR filter to deliver proper colours, and that CornerFix will be needed afterwards to correct the corners. And now he is pissed that the kit didn't work out for him, and threatens with selling the whole kit because it "let him down"? Didn't he test the kit before the job?

 

I am so tired of hearing this old "I bought a Leica and now the world owes me bigtime" BS. Leicas cost more because they are more expensive to make, not because Leica takes over the responsibility of the photographer. The job was botched by the photographer who then comes in here and complains about bad results.

 

Okay, okay, it's all a joke, I am just kidding, slaps on everyone's backs all around, I am going to bed now.

Edited by carstenw
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Not quite user error, Carsten, the CV 15 cannot handle high IR situations adequately:

 

This is with IR filter (Leica) set to WATE 16. It is not Leica's fault, nor CV. It is just a simple inexpensive lens.

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Right, it is no secret that there is no CV15 setting in the M8... part of due diligence here. Make sure that the tool you buy is appropriate for the job. Basic stuff. Given the camera and lens already are in-hand, I would use CornerFix. Starting from scratch, I would buy the Leica WATE or 18mm, or just stick with the D200.

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I put up my real world review of this lens and I had the same issues. I ended up shooting this lens WITHOUT an IR filter and had MUCH better results. The Cyan corners were just too much, even with coding. I also had this issue with the CV 28 F2. Coded as a 28 Cron and with a filter is still had green corners.

 

The little 15 is an awesome lens though when used correctly and is almost as sharp as any lens I have used. Its tricky to get perfect results using filters on non leica lenses with the M8 if you are under 35mm.

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Yes they look awful, but they look awful because you really do need to code wide angle lenses on the M8. So the optical vignette is affected by aperture (you say there should be none, and there isn't), but the colour vignette will be there regardless of aperture, because that's inherent to the M8's design (a microlens / angle issue, IIRC).

 

The easy solution is to code the lens (as an 18mm) and then the camera will compensate for the cyan corners. Or Cornerfix will fix them; or you can do it yourself in LAB mode in PS, where you will only affect the colour and not the luminance.

 

Jamie is absolutely correct. I've experienced, and continue to occasionally experience, these crummy cyan edges on wide lens shots. The camera uses the 6-bit coding to implement the chroma correction for wide lenses (i.e. < 35mm). I've coded my Zeiss wides and that -usually- takes care of the problem (yes, even with DNGs). The M8 firmware has made significant strides toward this end.

 

But...is the M8 sufficiently trustworthy for p.j. assignments? I know there are some fellows shooting such work. More power to 'em. But if I was a pj that needed the job there's no way I'd ever rely on an M8 exclusively. It might be occasionally handy to bring along but it's just neither sufficiently versatile nor reliable to be your sole camera.

 

That's my opinion based on using the M8 since it was introduced.

 

Good luck,

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I'll keep this thread in mind when others say that the M8 is a simple camera that doesn't require a long instruction manual.

 

Alan,

 

That's a bit disingenuous - almost a cheap shot in fact. For the most part, the M8 is a very simple camera to use and I suspect you know that.

 

Using an M8 with Leica lenses and Leica IR-cut filters is usually pretty straightforward. Once one starts using CV or Zeiss lenses (wider than 50 mm) on the M8 and hopes to correct them using programming designed for specific Leica lenses then he or she will need to do the needed homework for that to work out (and it certainly can work out well).

 

Leica does not support other makers' lenses in their firmware. Those of us who want to "color outside the lines" (using these other lenses) need to figure out how to make things work. It isn't Leica's problem, in that case, it is ours individually. The wider the non-Leica lens is, the more of a challenge we have.

 

Alan, you've written a lot of posts criticizing this camera. Since you are a busy working photographer, why are you devoting this amount of time and energy to a camera you clearly don't like very much?

 

The need for IR-cut filters on the M8 can be a PITA but the need for this will be well known to anyone who does a bit of homework before buying the camera. Photographers who not only buy the camera but who also (like myself) use it with various non-Leica lenses (that it has no specific corrections for) should be prepared for a little empirical work.

 

Plug n' Play with the M8: Current production Leica lens, Leica filter, set the menu *or* 50 mm or longer lens from Leica, CV or Zeiss and IR-cut filter.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

Edited by sean_reid
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