40mm Summicron V's 35 Summicron

[graeme_hutton]

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As a dedicated 40 'cron/M8 photographer I'm really curious to know if any of the 35 'crons are appreciably better, or even as good as this outstanding lens?

 

Anyone with comparitive knowledge?

 

Best

 

Graeme

[eleskin]

I have a 35mm Summicron version 4 Canadian (King of Bokeh) that is killer sharp at all f stops. I do not have a 40mm Summicron, but I do have a 40mm Nokton which I find not quite as sharp as the Summicron. I would get a 35mm Summicon anyway because it has unique a unique signature (sharpness, color rendition, tones, and of course, beautiful Bokeh).

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[epand56]

I don't have the 35mm Summicron, but I think that even the 40mm Summicron has a very personal rendition of the image, such as sharpness and very pleasant bokeh. It is on my M8 most of the time since the moment i bought it.

I agree with eleskin regarding the 40mm Nokton being not as good as the Summicron. In fact after getting the Cron i've sacrified the Nokton.

Besides, Graeme have often shown in his pictures how the small Cron can be a great lens.

[lct]

I've been using both 35/2 IV and 40/2 lenses on film Ms for some decades and i still do on R-D1 and R-D1s Epson bodies. Both lenses have the same signature to me. Plenty sharp, reasonable contrast, smooth bokeh. Perhaps the 35/2 IV is a little bit more prone to flare but the difference is tiny anyway. The only reason why i'd prefer one lens or the other would be their focal length personally. Also the 35/2 uses regular 39mm filters when the 40/2 needs series 5 filters. The glass of 39mm filters can be inserted into the 40/2 hood though. See http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/883722-post29.html.

[andym911]

graeme

 

the 40mm kills the 35 cron in all aspects in my opinion....no contest.with the 35 lux tho' ....it is in a different league..

 

andy

[luigi bertolotti]

I have 40 cron, 35 Cron 1st type, and... 35Cron ASPH... : and the later (which I bought less than 1 year ago) let me say is the killer of any previous lens in the range: this is not to to undermine my 40 which I had for years and was a lens I loved a lot... but the asph, frankly, has been a pleasant surprise for me: as a passionate lover of old lenses (I still prefer my Summarit 1,5 when need a really fast lens, and find that the SA 21 3,4 is after all very close to the EL 21 asph), I admit that the Cron asph made me touching what really means a modern Leica lens.

[lct]

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Matter of tastes, Luigi. I like using 'modern' lenses from time to time but with a couple of exceptions i prefer my Mandler lenses personally. BTW i don't know if the Summicron-C 40/2 has been designed by the Mandler team, any idea about that?

[luigi bertolotti]

Matter of tastes, Luigi. I like using 'modern' lenses from time to time but with a couple of exceptions i prefer my Mandler lenses personally. BTW i don't know if the Summicron-C 40/2 has been designed by the Mandler team, any idea about that?

 

Interesting question... the 6-elements design of the Cron 40 is practically identical to the 2nd Cron 35 (Mandler), but Mandler himself was surely in Canada when the 40 (Wetzlar) was produced... but anyway he was working for Leitz, after all.

[carstenw]

Wasn't the 40 Cron a Minolta design?

[carstenw]

Wasn't the 40 Cron a Minolta design?

 

I looked it up. It was a Leitz design. The Minolta version was identical, except for using Minolta glass. The 35 Cron IV is meant to outperform the 40 Cron in every way. Boke for the 40 can occasionally be really funky.

 

By the way, as to the "King of boke" comment: Michael Johnston coined that phrase, but only for the boke at f/4 and smaller. Wide open it also sometimes has some really iffy boke. I think he might even have meant the comment only at medium distances, since he observed that at close distances it can also freak out. Anyway, it depends on how you use it. Some people's usage probably never hits the problem areas, and so for these people it would be a near-perfect lens, sharp but not clinical, with only a tiny hint of CA.

[graeme_hutton]

I .....The 35 Cron IV is meant to outperform the 40 Cron in every way. Boke for the 40 can occasionally be really funky.

 

How much better can the 35 'cron IV be than this?

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[carstenw]

How much better can the 35 'cron IV be than this?

 

Let's say: every *measurable* way. MTF, distortion, whatever. Of course, taste in boke is very individual, and the 40 Cron is certainly not a bad lens.

[epand56]

How much better can the 35 'cron IV be than this?

 

Graeme, I'm impressed. Is it on tripod or hand held?

The bokeh is quite close to that of the 35 Lux Asph, just a little less soft.

[GarethC]

I find that bokeh ot be a little funky, sort of hard work on the eyes a bit Graeme.

 

I have the 40 Cron and the 35 Cron Asph and I'd have to give the edge to the 35.

 

That said, there are a couple of things outside of image quality worth considering. First off, if I remember correctly, the filter thread pitch is a little different and the built in hood is a royal pain.

 

One thing that is massively in its favour though is that if the lens mount is filed to the 35mm frame lines it is an absolute spot on match to the 35mm frame lines on my M8, the frame lines on my M8 are actually 40mm frame lines. Go figure

[graeme_hutton]

I find that bokeh ot be a little funky, sort of hard work on the eyes a bit Graeme.

 

I have the 40 Cron and the 35 Cron Asph and I'd have to give the edge to the 35.

 

That said, there are a couple of things outside of image quality worth considering. First off, if I remember correctly, the filter thread pitch is a little different and the built in hood is a royal pain.

 

One thing that is massively in its favour though is that if the lens mount is filed to the 35mm frame lines it is an absolute spot on match to the 35mm frame lines on my M8, the frame lines on my M8 are actually 40mm frame lines. Go figure

 

And it's available for around £250!

 

Graeme

[graeme_hutton]

Graeme, I'm impressed. Is it on tripod or hand held?

The bokeh is quite close to that of the 35 Lux Asph, just a little less soft.

 

Hand held Enrico....and I'm not the steadiest!

 

Regards

 

Graeme

[batmobile]

if you want bokeh, buy the summarit 35

[lars_bergquist]

How much better can the 35 'cron IV be than this?

I would not touch a lens that created that kind of bokeh. Look at the ring-shaped point highlights in the background. That, Mister, is heavily overcorrected spherical aberration. If you had had any similar highlights in front of the inflorescence, they would have looked the exact opposite: Bright in center, fading outwards. If spherical is well balanced, the highlights look like discs of even brightness all over. Undercorrected spherical gives the opposite effect to overcorrected,

 

The v. IV Summicron is better than that. It got its nickname because its o.o.f. rendering is much smoother than that of the preceding (six element) v. II--III, which had really busy and often irritating o.o.f. drawing. But the modern aspherical 35mm lenses do beat it hands down. As they should -- aspherical surfaces are especially useful for combating spherical aberration!

 

I have used the v. IV extensively, and use it still when I want a really compact lens on my M8 (which does cut off the corners, which are really weak at wide apertures). The lens is still good, and was sensational in 1979. But thechnology marches on.

 

The old man from the Age of the Spheres

[Anguish]

I use a Summicron-C 40 f2 Leitz Wetzlar Made in Germany w/a UV/IR filter that manages to stay on. It is usually my "normal" lens when I bike around with one body.

I enjoy it even more after discovering that if you over-rotate it on mounting (as with the tele-elmar 135 where over-rotation brings up the 90 mm frameline) it brings up the 35 mm. framelines, which approximate it's field of view closely.

If you don't over-rotate it on mounting, the 50 mm frameline comes up, which is far less desirable and detracts from the set-up.

All this on M8 bodies, no upgrades.

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Hallo,

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[davidriver]

How about this one by 35 cron v4 wide open?

 

How much better can the 35 'cron IV be than this?

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