sean_reid Posted April 10, 2009 Share #81 Posted April 10, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) this thread is awesome! first we get Helplessly Hoping and now Casablanca. (and, no, i'm not being facetious. i truly adore both!) Art, in whatever form, is always more interesting to me than equipment and so I know what you mean. Cheers, Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 10, 2009 Posted April 10, 2009 Hi sean_reid, Take a look here Please keep me from selling the M8 for a Nikon D40. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stevem7 Posted April 10, 2009 Share #82 Posted April 10, 2009 If you sell your M8 you will regret it later. Man, I wish I had the gear I sold two years ago. Two M8's, 21 Elmarit, 50 Lux ASPH LHSA, 35 Summicron, 50 Noctilux... I so miss ALL of those lenses and a few months ago bought another M8 and 50 Lux but do not have the cash to buy the Noct, the 21, or the cron. I have had my share of DSLR's including the D300, D700, 5D, etc. I always come back to the M8. It would be best to keep the M8 and the Nikon as a DSLR is always nice to have. I would try to keep both if I were you. If not, I bet you would miss that M8 down the road. Good luck. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted April 10, 2009 Share #83 Posted April 10, 2009 If you really need the money and want to make sure you won't regret the decision, my advice is: sell the M8, keep the lenses, buy a cheap used M6. Shoot some film here and there, and when you're ready to get back into the Leica game you can buy whatever generation digital M at whatever price it is going for by then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cme4brain Posted April 10, 2009 Author Share #84 Posted April 10, 2009 If you really need the money and want to make sure you won't regret the decision, my advice is: sell the M8, keep the lenses, buy a cheap used M6. Shoot some film here and there, and when you're ready to get back into the Leica game you can buy whatever generation digital M at whatever price it is going for by then. What a myriad of opinions on this matter, exactly what I wanted when I started the thread. All in all, the true test of Leica equipment, of rangefinder vs. DSLR is at wide open aperture and low light, not the f/8 static image I presented. It was just amazing to me that at f/8 there is no real difference between the Leica/CV lens and a 6MP basement DSLR. I had I suppose expected a difference even then; other threads for years would lead one to think Leica glass/equipment will give superior images no matter what the circumstance. I must now think on other possibilities. Perhaps that was someI will be cautious to sell my M8 and lenses as I bought it for several reasons in the first place- not just image quality but ultimate control of the image, manual focusing, and a small light body. But now the image quality can be equaled by much cheaper cameras in some situations. That knowledge may take the shine off the Leica apple a little- at least for me- but I will make absolutely sure before I do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted April 11, 2009 Share #85 Posted April 11, 2009 What a myriad of opinions on this matter, exactly what I wanted when I started the thread. All in all, the true test of Leica equipment, of rangefinder vs. DSLR is at wide open aperture and low light, not the f/8 static image I presented. It was just amazing to me that at f/8 there is no real difference between the Leica/CV lens and a 6MP basement DSLR. I had I suppose expected a difference even then; other threads for years would lead one to think Leica glass/equipment will give superior images no matter what the circumstance. I must now think on other possibilities. Perhaps that was someI will be cautious to sell my M8 and lenses as I bought it for several reasons in the first place- not just image quality but ultimate control of the image, manual focusing, and a small light body. But now the image quality can be equaled by much cheaper cameras in some situations. That knowledge may take the shine off the Leica apple a little- at least for me- but I will make absolutely sure before I do. Hi Lloyd, I would not draw those conclusions at all from your pictures and I am surprised that you do. Cheers, Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted April 11, 2009 Share #86 Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) Stick with the DSLR, it will save you time and you will have a heap of images that you can use .................... Lets hope your attitude is different when you choof off to work................... hmmnn now " What ails you....... hang on I'll consult a forum" Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 11, 2009 by stnami Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/81736-please-keep-me-from-selling-the-m8-for-a-nikon-d40/?do=findComment&comment=868523'>More sharing options...
Shootist Posted April 11, 2009 Share #87 Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) What a myriad of opinions on this matter, exactly what I wanted when I started the thread. All in all, the true test of Leica equipment, of rangefinder vs. DSLR is at wide open aperture and low light, not the f/8 static image I presented. It was just amazing to me that at f/8 there is no real difference between the Leica/CV lens and a 6MP basement DSLR. I had I suppose expected a difference even then; other threads for years would lead one to think Leica glass/equipment will give superior images no matter what the circumstance. I must now think on other possibilities. Perhaps that was someI will be cautious to sell my M8 and lenses as I bought it for several reasons in the first place- not just image quality but ultimate control of the image, manual focusing, and a small light body. But now the image quality can be equaled by much cheaper cameras in some situations. That knowledge may take the shine off the Leica apple a little- at least for me- but I will make absolutely sure before I do. The post quoted is a crock of horse dung. Sell it, you don't like it. Move on and stop wasting yours and our time. Edited April 11, 2009 by Shootist Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstotler Posted April 11, 2009 Share #88 Posted April 11, 2009 At f/8, bright sunlight and a static subject it hardly matters anyway. Interesting point. F/8+ shots with the M8 and M6 I recently took got a raised eyebrow from my wife. "MY camera can do that. Those are nothing special." And she then claimed they didn't "look Leica" to her. Go figure. The OOF character matters. It's going to be tougher to pull that out of the Nikon--although the f/1.8 50mm lens is pretty good with its OOF area drawing. And positively cheap compared to a Summicron. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted April 11, 2009 Share #89 Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) The post quoted is a crock of horse dung.Sell it, you don't like it. Move on and stop wasting yours and our time. Better watch out, cme4brain. Last week I got this: I suggest you have a bunch of STIFF drinks. Maybe it will kill that bug up your bunghole. Suggesting that I consume a lot of alcohol, followed by a more than passing interest in my sphincter, may be just the way to be friendly in his part of the world. But even in the liberal, diverse DC area, that seemed just a bit forward. Edited April 11, 2009 by ljclark Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted April 11, 2009 Share #90 Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) I suggest you have a bunch of STIFF drinks. Maybe it will kill that bug up your bunghole. ........ his profile states that he is a quack so take note and keep up the spirits ......then again he may know very little Edited April 11, 2009 by stnami Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cme4brain Posted April 11, 2009 Author Share #91 Posted April 11, 2009 Stick with the DSLR, it will save you time and you will have a heap of images that you can use .................... Lets hope your attitude is different when you choof off to work................... hmmnn now " What ails you....... hang on I'll consult a forum" Should I sell the Leica for my reasons or not, I can tell you that I probably won't be spending much time in this forum any more. The primary reason is smartass posts like above. The purpose of the post was to have more experienced Leica owners than me offer suggestions as to my possible error in failing to note a difference between the two platforms. I absolutely realize that f/8 does not push the Leica envelope, but I was surprised that an $5000 camera is equaled in some situations by a $400 one. Several posters here practically state that anything Leica is leaps ahead of anything lesser- clearly not the case in my example and I would surmise others. I neither shoot wide open nor desire to, and probably for my type of amateur photography, the M8 is overkill. I asked an honest question for me to get opinions- and look at some of the answers I received, such as above. I see some posters as pleasant over the years, but some as the above with some nerd/camera arrogance seeming to justify their expensive camera in the face of objective facts. And my attitude at work is just fine, thank you! As Chief of Neurology at my local hospital, it is I who is consulted for at times life and death issues. I also am a member of Mensa and have a Magna Cum Laude in Mechanical Engineering, therefore anytime this poster wants to match wits, I am up for it; I doubt he is (Hmmmm? Like the smartass comments?). You should be 10% as good at your job as I am at mine; roadside rubbish would be picked up faster (oh my gosh, more comments?). While I have learned some knowledge of the M8 via this forum (primarily the hand coding of lenses), I have done so at the notation of many posters characters and attitudes. I have to tell you I am not impressed. Other less experienced newcomers have asked newbie questions, only to be lambasted by the lot of you. I won't be returning here (not that you care) and will leave you to yourselves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted April 11, 2009 Share #92 Posted April 11, 2009 Should I sell the Leica for my reasons or not, I can tell you that I probably won't be spending much time in this forum any more. The primary reason is smartass posts like aboveSo that's why you come out with comments like this ....... I suggest you have a bunch of STIFF drinks. Maybe it will kill that bug up your bunghole. As far as I am concerned you can Magna Cum Laude up your bunghole (to quote a mensa man:D) So take it easy in the thunderbox, where people big note their credentials on that special paper ps it's smartarse or smart-ass as we spell it down under Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted April 11, 2009 Share #93 Posted April 11, 2009 Ultimate control is what Leica is about. I love having a manual aperture ring and have a tactile confirmation of my aperture. Also being able to see what is going on beyond your frame is the ultimate rangefinder advantage. And btw. you are wrong if you believe the out of focus areas don't matter at f8 and beyond. I should at f8 a lot. Try focusing on something that is about five feet away from your lens and enjoy the look of everything past 30 feet. The drawing of the lens will show even at f8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted April 11, 2009 Share #94 Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) The question was a good question, and there were some good, reasoned replies (among some rude ones). The bottom line is that lenses shouldn't be compared at f/8 because they pretty much all look sharp at f/8. Comparing lenses at f/8 is reasonable if one normally shoots at f/8, but even then the differences are pretty minor for many photographic purposes. In the examples presented, the differences are minor, so either camera (and lens) can serve an f/8-shooter very well. As we don't have enough car analogies , pretty much any car at any price will be fine for bringing home a bag of groceries. Edited April 11, 2009 by zlatkob Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted April 11, 2009 Share #95 Posted April 11, 2009 ...Magna Cum... Is that a geological term for a volcanic eruption? Again, f8 proves nothing regarding sharpness. Repeat this several times. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 11, 2009 Share #96 Posted April 11, 2009 That thought tells me that a 6MP amateur DSLR with a $100 kit lens at f/8 is pretty daggone comparable to my $5000 10MP M8, at least in this example. That's a $5,000 camera with a cheap lens, is it not? You have obviously made your mind up. Just sell and move on, happy in the knowledge that you have made the right choice for you. By the way, this whole thread will be deleted if people engage in any more personal attacks. Mods have better things to do than filter them all out, so the whole thread will go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted April 11, 2009 Share #97 Posted April 11, 2009 (edited) You can have all of the Mensa-Cum-Brains you want and still not get the Zen of Leica. Leica is not about a static image of your brick McMansion taken at f8 on a tripod that you put under a microscope. You can't Cum-reason your way to what makes Leica the camera of choice for most on this forum by taking test pictures of your house in just one afternoon. If, you actually take your camera out of your yard and shoot it in a non-static way, you will begin to appreciate the intangibles that make Leica worth while. If, you let go of your analytical way of processing information and try to feel photography instead of thinking photography, you will take a big step closer to what you are "missing" - your word. Remember, you wanted to know what you were missing? Everything. Just the fact that you posted the images and asked the questions you did tells me and others here that you are missing everything. Step back from the 100% crops and take your camera out and shoot with it and try to create the magic that is art. See which camera gets you closer to your soul and your inner self. You are obviously searching for this or you would not be wasting your time here asking about what you are missing. By the way, there are no arguments about f8 and megapixels and 100% crops. You are obviously a smart guy (you let us know how smart) so you knew those answers before you asked. What I think you want to really know is obscured from your view in the non-analytical portion of yourself. You know it but, can't see it. You feel it but, can't reason it. The frustrations you have posted here are palpable. I believe all human beings have the deep urge to create and express themselves. We all want to express ourselves. This expression at its most intimate form comes out as art. The problem sometimes is that art is not an analytic process. It is not something that can be reasoned with. Often, for the analytic mind, the tools of art become a frustration of imperfection when, they should simple be the conduit of our creative souls. So, choose your own conduit. Embrace it and dance. But, don't come here and ask questions that you already know the answers to. Now, come back and join this band of misfit old over-thinkers that are only trying to find a bit of their souls through photography. You obviously fit right in with the rest of us. Rick p.s. Take my advise, drop your pants (and lab coat) and slide on the ice. - Dr Sidney Freidman, 4077th MASH Edited April 11, 2009 by RickLeica Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted April 11, 2009 Share #98 Posted April 11, 2009 To sum it all up. With a mass market camera, you take a picture. With a Leica, you make a photograph. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljclark Posted April 11, 2009 Share #99 Posted April 11, 2009 Apologies for any misinterpretation of the "stiff drink" comment in post #89 above. That did NOT come towards me from "cme4brain", but rather from Shootist. Had cme4brain elected to focus his attention on me (though he is probably too much of a gentleman to do so), I suspect it would have been an entirely different region of the anatomy (based on his background). Obviously I need to concentrate more on the primary content here rather than the sidebar cultural suggestions. Further, I sentence myself to 2 hours of basement cleaning, with no time off for good behavior. Perhaps this thread should be sentenced to death. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted April 11, 2009 Share #100 Posted April 11, 2009 To sum it all up. With a mass market camera, you take a picture. With a Leica, you make a photograph. Drivel. Anyway get in quick and sa what you want before the atom bartonates. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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