Anyone play with the SF 58?

[nagui]

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Hi

i did a bench with to compare pictures with 3 conditions :

 

M8 90 Asph tripod white balance auto

1- 1/250s f2 160 iso SF24D TTL mode

2- 1/90s f2 1250 iso no flash

3- 1/250s f2 160 iso SF58 TTL and soft mode light on the roof direction

 

Nag,

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[wlaidlaw]

I will have to chase mine up, as it was ordered on the day of announcement but still not arrived in the UK. I would like to get before my departure back to France after Easter.

 

Nag - how is the cat - have you had to adjust her ISO after those test pics?

 

Wilson

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[Max Alfy]

Are you sure #2 is the one without flash

[nagui]

Are you sure #2 is the one without flash :

Yes , there wasnt enough light on my cat, so it s over exposed arount her.

 

 

 

Nag - how is the cat - have you had to adjust her ISO after those test pics?

She was feed up by my flash i guess. Anyway i didnt do any post-processing on theses pictures.

 

Nag,

[wlaidlaw]

The last one has a much warmer and richer look to it. I rarely use the SF24-D without the SFILL softbox. I too would get rather cold looking pictures like your #1 without it. I have bought a Sto-Fen softbox in advance for the SF58. It is very good for taking people pictures in cold grey British outside light. You see UK press photographers using them all the time.

 

Wilson

[cme4brain]

Oh boy ... designed with rangefinders in mind Would love to see a nice smaller flash some time from Leica, with AA batteries and some means of indirect lightning.

 

Does anybody care to point out the most important differences to a Metz 54i? The latter one has the advantage of being adaptable to a number of different systems.

 

Cheers

Ivo

 

 

I have the Metz 58AF designed for Nikon. I use it with great sucess on my M8 in AUTO mode. IMHO there is little if any practical difference between TTL flash control on the M8 and AUTO. The TTL control on the M8 is rudmentary, far beneath the capability of the Metz 58. This difference is so slight (try your Leica SF24D on TTl and auto mode in identical situations and try to tell a difference) that I bought the Metz 58AF for my Nikons. The 58AF on a Nikon DSLR really does make a difference as that camera has significant advances in TTL flash technology- i-TTL to control background flash fill, etc. Those DSLR's have sophisticated enough metering that the flash actually makes a difference. The TTL capability of the M8 is minimal- it measures one white shutter blade with a horizontal preference- no selection of spot/center weighted/matrix metering. So don't pay an inflated price for the Leica version of the Metz 58AF. Just get the one that is useful on your other DSLR's and use in on the M8 in AUTO mode.

[dfarkas]

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I have the Metz 58AF designed for Nikon. I use it with great sucess on my M8 in AUTO mode. IMHO there is little if any practical difference between TTL flash control on the M8 and AUTO. The TTL control on the M8 is rudmentary, far beneath the capability of the Metz 58. This difference is so slight (try your Leica SF24D on TTl and auto mode in identical situations and try to tell a difference) that I bought the Metz 58AF for my Nikons. The 58AF on a Nikon DSLR really does make a difference as that camera has significant advances in TTL flash technology- i-TTL to control background flash fill, etc. Those DSLR's have sophisticated enough metering that the flash actually makes a difference. The TTL capability of the M8 is minimal- it measures one white shutter blade with a horizontal preference- no selection of spot/center weighted/matrix metering. So don't pay an inflated price for the Leica version of the Metz 58AF. Just get the one that is useful on your other DSLR's and use in on the M8 in AUTO mode.

 

Yes and no. I've used a Metz 58AF-1 for Nikon on my M8 in A mode and it does work. But, after trying out the SF58 I can see some advantages to using TTL. The biggest for me is that I don't have to constantly be adjusting the aperture setting on the flash. I can just change my lens aperture at will and keep shooting. Shooting in A mode requires a bit of trial and error that just went away with TTL shooting. Bounce flash shooting is far more accurate with TTL on the new flash. Again, less trial and error. And, the new flash plays well with Auto ISO. In Auto ISO and A mode on the M8, the SF58 and M8 seem to be able to very consistently match the ambient light for accurate fill flash.

 

Overall, I found the ease and simplicity of just turning the flash on and shooting to be a better option than manually controlling ISO and adjusting the settings on the flash every time I wanted to change f-stop. If, on the other hand, you only shoot at one ISO, shutter speed and aperture combo while shooting flash, the TTL ability will offer you no real advantage over the 58AF-1.

 

Just my 2c worth.

 

David

[cme4brain]

Yes and no. I've used a Metz 58AF-1 for Nikon on my M8 in A mode and it does work. But, after trying out the SF58 I can see some advantages to using TTL. The biggest for me is that I don't have to constantly be adjusting the aperture setting on the flash. I can just change my lens aperture at will and keep shooting. Shooting in A mode requires a bit of trial and error that just went away with TTL shooting. Bounce flash shooting is far more accurate with TTL on the new flash. Again, less trial and error. And, the new flash plays well with Auto ISO. In Auto ISO and A mode on the M8, the SF58 and M8 seem to be able to very consistently match the ambient light for accurate fill flash.

 

Overall, I found the ease and simplicity of just turning the flash on and shooting to be a better option than manually controlling ISO and adjusting the settings on the flash every time I wanted to change f-stop. If, on the other hand, you only shoot at one ISO, shutter speed and aperture combo while shooting flash, the TTL ability will offer you no real advantage over the 58AF-1.

 

Just my 2c worth.

 

David

 

That is a great point of view, and one I would not have as I do not use the Metz 58AF for my leica. I appreciate it. I hate to ask, but can you change your aperture at will with the Leica SF24d? I always set a fixed f/stop on the flash and have not thought to allow changing of the aperture.

[RockyIII]

I just got an SF 58, and the build quality is much better than the SF 24D. I'd say it compares to the Nikon SB-800 with simpler controls, and the additional small secondary flash is a very nice feature. I've never had a flash with that before.

 

Rocky

[wlaidlaw]

That is a great point of view, and one I would not have as I do not use the Metz 58AF for my leica. I appreciate it. I hate to ask, but can you change your aperture at will with the Leica SF24d? I always set a fixed f/stop on the flash and have not thought to allow changing of the aperture.

 

If you are using the SF24-D in GNC mode, the camera measures the light reaching the exposure cell from the pre-flash and then controls the 24-D to produce the appropriate strength of flash (maybe modified by operator on the +/- controls on the flash). Thus if you reduce the lens aperture, less light will reach the photocell and the camera will request a stronger flash, so in effect, aperture compensation is automatic. You do not get an aperture read out on the SF24-D in GNC mode. You can further modify the action of the SF-24D by using it in the camera set "slow sync" mode, which if set in "lens dependent, will use the ambient light to set a shutter speed down to a lower limit (the shorter the lens, the lower this limit will be) and the flash then acts as a fill in.

 

Hope this all makes sense.

 

Wilson

[Olsen]

An important key to good flash photography is use of several flashes. Can two or more SF 58s be used in a master & slave TTL mode as on Canon's flashes?

[george +]

An important key to good flash photography is use of several flashes. Can two or more SF 58s be used in a master & slave TTL mode as on Canon's flashes?

 

I do not know how Canon does it. But the SF 58 has a slave move (and a stand) and can be triggered by the light of a flash from the camera or elsewhere. I see no reason why multiple SF 58-s could not be triggered the same way.

[RockyIII]

An important key to good flash photography is use of several flashes. Can two or more SF 58s be used in a master & slave TTL mode as on Canon's flashes?

 

I have used multiple Nikon flashes in an i-TTL setup, which Nikon calls their Creative Lighting System (CLS). The SF 58 does not have the same capability for remote use. It is more of a manual system.

 

Rocky

Edited April 6, 2009 by RockyIII

[Olsen]

I have used multiple Nikon flashes in an i-TTL setup, which Nikon calls their Creative Lighting System (CLS). The SF 58 does not have the same capability for remote use. It is more of a manual system.

 

Rocky

 

Pitty. I am sure that Leica will find out that if their S2 system does not have such a capability they will not be competitive. I regularly use Canon's e-TTL with three 550EX and the transmitter on the camera. It produces far better flash pictures.

[GLC]

the Metz 58AF-1 version built for panasonic/olympus is supposed to work with ttl for the m8 if you look on the metz website. 1/2 the price as per usual of leica's absurd markup.

[RockyIII]

I did not mean to imply that the The SF 58 does work in TTL mode. It does as a single flash, but there is no remote TTL mode for a multiple flash setup.

 

Rocky

[dfarkas]

the Metz 58AF-1 version built for panasonic/olympus is supposed to work with ttl for the m8 if you look on the metz website. 1/2 the price as per usual of leica's absurd markup.

 

Actually, the Panasonic/Olympus version is only compatible with D-Lux 4, V-Lux 1, and Digilux 3. It does not support TTL or the soft flash mode on the M8.

 

And, the Leica SF58 is $649, not twice the price of the 58AF-1, which is $400.

 

As I said before, the SF58 just works. Put it on the hot shoe and shoot. No workarounds, no fiddling. This is a good thing that we have gone far too long without, and well worth the price now that we have it.

 

David

[robsteve]

Pitty. I am sure that Leica will find out that if their S2 system does not have such a capability they will not be competitive. I regularly use Canon's e-TTL with three 550EX and the transmitter on the camera. It produces far better flash pictures.

 

 

The S2 users would probably be using studio strobes when multiple flashes are needed.

 

Robert

[wlaidlaw]

My 58 had arrived after all but someone had tucked it away, so that it would not be sold and forgotten to tell anyone. Just had a quick play with it. Exposures seem very accurate on the M8 (TTL/GNC) and with a Sto-Fen softbox on it plus fill in flash, the end result is beautifully soft, with no flash glare and no bounce shadows.

 

I have however, spotted the first firmware error. If you are using it on an M8 with a MATE, the 58 zooms, albeit a bit hesitantly and not every time, from 35 to 50 but if you go on to the 28mm focal length setting on the lens, the flash goes back to 35 not 28. Anyone got any idea who might be the best person to advise this to (Stephan Daniel?), so that it gets picked up for the next SF58 or M8 firmware update.

 

Wilson

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[wlaidlaw]

I have done a cut down PDF version of the manual in English language only (other language pages deleted), as a carry around reference for my laptop. I am happy to email this to anyone who requires it.

 

Wilson