craigrmurray Posted November 14, 2006 Share #61 Posted November 14, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Oh, funny thing. The first day shooting with the M8 last week, I had shot about a dozen pictures or so, and noticed the battery was almost empty (of course I'd only charged it for about ten or fifteen minutes, I'd just pulled the thing outta the box and couldn't wait any longer to shoot it). So I took off the bottom plate to pull out the battery, and then I gasped and almost dropped the plate -- "Sh*t, I just exposed most of a roll of film!", I shouted. Of course, I then realized the little ones and zeros were not going to spill out of the memory card and become lightstruck. Putting that plate on the bottom was a stroke of genius, whomever designed it. It allows us old film guys both a connection to our old equipment, and a continuity in working the same way, with similar piece of equipment (even if the release is on the other side from its location on the film M's. Just curious if anyone else who has an M8 has had the same "Oops" experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Hi craigrmurray, Take a look here M8 - the end for your Film M's ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
frc Posted November 14, 2006 Share #62 Posted November 14, 2006 My thumb'll go for the advance lever and yes I suppose it'll happen to me, the paralising shock after removing the bottom......... damn didn't rewind!!!!! My hope is that I develop an intuitive distinction between the MP and the M8, otherwise ;-( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 14, 2006 Share #63 Posted November 14, 2006 Just curious if anyone else who has an M8 has had the same "Oops" experience. Very much so. I mentioned this in one of the earlier "My M8's arrived" threads. I still get a slightly odd feeling taking the baseplate off but nothing like the queasy "sick' feeling I initially got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'Ate Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share #64 Posted November 14, 2006 Dear friends, the original question was meant to focus on 'working' cameras, as opposed to collectors, sentimental reasons, or heirlooms. It was about the way of working and cutting out film work. AS David Adamson says, "I'll be keeping the M6TTL, but only using the M8 from this point on. I have a number of cameras, but I don't collect them. If the M8 surpasses what else I have in every respect, or to a practical degree, the original kit becomes redundant and it might as well go. The M8 is not right and has no place in my locker, but owners seem to strongly believe that it will work and if that happens before my delivery date I will take it in full knowledge that it will release other kit. If the M8 produces 'better' IQ than any other Leica why wouldn't it be the "end of your Film M's ?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoutman Posted November 14, 2006 Share #65 Posted November 14, 2006 Sure I keep my M7 while eagerly waiting for delivery of a black M8. What surprises me is the sudden massive attention on the digital section of this forum. Last year most visitors seemed so sceptical about anything Leica digital and now that the M8 - with all its bugs - has been released, the attention seems the opposite... which is IMO great. Leica has taken the right direction and let's all hope will solve the m8 problems soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted November 14, 2006 Share #66 Posted November 14, 2006 Whenever your new M8 arrives' date=' will you be selling off your 'working' film M's, moving into the new age and becoming a dedicated digital photographer ? Not that I think you should, but if not, why not ? Are you already at that point anyway ? Will your M8 be in addition to a DSLR you own, or be replacing one ? Just for interests sake. [/quote'] actually the rd1 was the point when I didnt use my film Ms much any more. I keep my M6 anyways, since it has been a very good companion for so long. I might sell my M7 though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sievers Posted November 14, 2006 Share #67 Posted November 14, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) I went from years of film shots sitting in shoe boxes, to a multitude to digital point and shoots, prosumer cameras, the D70, the D200, the Ricoh GRD and the Epson Rd1. Then I came to realise that film gives me the aesthetic quality I want in a photo. So, in the past 6 mths I have purchased an M6 and M7 and 5 Leica lenses second hand. I still use the Nikons for SLR geared photography (sports, long telephoto, events etc), the GRD is a great street camera, the RD1 is a great digital rangefinder for the money. But I am in heaven with the Leicas. I scan the film and can do everything I ever did in a BW darkroom and everything I never did in a color darkroom. I now have over 1000 images posted on Flickr and thousands of views and comments. I am having a ball ;-) I am very impressed with some of the M8 images I have seen, but for me it is still no substitute for the tonality and feeling of film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidada Posted November 14, 2006 Share #68 Posted November 14, 2006 I am interested in what scanners Leica members are using to scan the film stock? I am assuming that we buy leica for the absolute quality in the lens resolution? This can be seriously degraded in the scanning procedure, so it seems a retrograde step to use a pro-sumer scanner over a dedicated highend drum scanner. There is a difference, I constantky get to test equipment and although the level of quality is astounding for what you can purchase in a scanner today - it still falls far short of the high end. What are people using? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted November 14, 2006 Share #69 Posted November 14, 2006 What are people using? Nikon Super Coolscan 8000 & 4000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted November 14, 2006 Share #70 Posted November 14, 2006 Imacon 949. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M'Ate Posted November 14, 2006 Author Share #71 Posted November 14, 2006 I am interested in what scanners Leica members are using to scan the film stock? what you can purchase in a scanner today - it still falls far short of the high end. What are people using? Nikon Super 9000 and when scanning serious stuff, I'll use the MF anti-Newton ring glass holders. David, - Read all the time about scanning being an art form, but I don't understand that POV. I follow the book, use the curves and get the stuff into PS to work on. Perhaps you could expand on the differences between the art and craft of scanning ? P.S. Didn't mean to limit that to David. Others input, esp Marc following his trial of every worthy scanner, would be welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
telyt Posted November 14, 2006 Share #72 Posted November 14, 2006 I am interested in what scanners Leica members are using to scan the film stock? Polaroid SprintScan 4000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted November 14, 2006 Share #73 Posted November 14, 2006 most of my works are scanned on either creo ever-smart or on imacon 848... for fast proof scans and alike i use epson perfection 4990photo at my place...... by the way... i dont think the issue of good scanner is a matter of leica or any other high-quality stuff... good scanner is important to reproduce faithfully the film.... marc says great things about his new imacon... it is really intresting... david and marc... do u think that the new imacon functions like the "oil mounting" that is on creo and some other scanners (like the drums), or is there some additional value to it ???? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidada Posted November 14, 2006 Share #74 Posted November 14, 2006 In my experience there is a big jump with nothing in between from the prosumer scanners ie. All the nikon scanners All the minolta Konica and the newest Epson scanners Given that we are talking 35mm once you move up in size over 4x5 and also into reflective scans the differences are closer. You then get to the next group which are equally grouped: Linotype Topaz II Scitex Eversmart Supreme Imacon 848 and up Then at the top: ICG ( the only drum scanner still made) Heidelberg Tango We have in house the Topaz, the Scitex and the ICG so I have been able to compare all three, as an aside I have also tested alll of the prosumer models. Typically the difference is easy to see and understand the drum scaanned negs have a sharper bite the grain of the film is finely and crisply resolved. This not only aids definition but also the smooth tonal range in an image. All of the drum scanners and the Scitex also have superior ability to resolve detail in the shadows, the drums being superior to the Scitex. As too scanning art - you could take any one of these highend units and in the wrong hands produce an inferior file to a good operator using a prosumer unit. It is not rocket science, however , I am surprised at the number of awful scans from reputable sources that my clients sometimes bring in. Also garbage in - garbage out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zurenborger Posted November 14, 2006 Share #75 Posted November 14, 2006 I will continue using film. The M8 is my first ever digital camera, it will help me explore this new manner of photography, for me at least, but I still find using film "romantic/nostalgic" I always keep my cameras, do not sell then to finance the purchase of others, and all of my cameras are film cameras, just the one little M8 being the digital "outcast" It is even questionable if I will keep it. I have a two week period to decide if the problems effects my line of work or not, if so and if the problem has no probable solution path I will return and purchase a D5 and use this with my R lenses, and probably also buy a couple of nice Canon lenses. But time will tell.... I might even keep the M8 and still buy the 5D. I am in the fortunate position that my company purchase the equipment, saving up to 55% on sales tax and tax deducts, but then again I will only use the digital for company use, privately I will continue using film. Don't you just love unpacking and loading a new roll of film as opposed to changing a piece of electronic plastic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted November 14, 2006 Share #76 Posted November 14, 2006 david, very true...... operator is another important thing of scanner... i have some scans from topaz which are not as good as i wish... operator i guess, cause i know the scanner is really cool. and very true... the gap between the groupls is simply huge.... this is why i dont buy a serious scanner. sometime ago, i was thinking about getting the creo iq-smart3 (which is a bit cheaper than $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ever-smart). i already had two presentation with operator about it, but finally, i have decided to go for a digital medium, so i cannot afford at the same time both the scanner and the digi-back.... man... im thinking instead, to get the big epson 1000 (how it is called)..... it is very cheap and scans huge prints and twice more film on silngle batch than the A4 epson perfection4990... i think, in terms of quality it should be very good for prints reproduction (those i make in the darkroom for example).... what do u think???? oh, i do know that there will be no advantage with scanning film with that big scanner... just that i will be able to put more films at once.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidada Posted November 14, 2006 Share #77 Posted November 14, 2006 The big flat beds are really good at scanning print media, sometimes as you know you can work forever in the darkroom on a print - burning, dodging, spotting. A lot of people take this final exhibition quality proof and then scan and produce editioned prints from the scan. As far as negs the scanner is good for creating quick contact sheets - but not for finished scans Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSee Posted November 14, 2006 Share #78 Posted November 14, 2006 [snipped] Putting that plate on the bottom was a stroke of genius, whomever designed it. It allows us old film guys both a connection to our old equipment, and a continuity in working the same way, with similar piece of equipment (even if the release is on the other side from its location on the film M's. Just curious if anyone else who has an M8 has had the same "Oops" experience. That base plate also is made of a less brittle material than the cast body, so a drop will not crack the camera[1]; makes "silver" and "black" accents easily implemented[2], provides a bit more stability and likely longevity for the tripod mount... ...but the baseplate "tongue" and locking-lever mechanism is the reverse of other Ms: so the feel is just different enough that I really know it's not one of my film Ms. rgds, Dave [1] Of course, certain drops may cause severe damage! [2] Hmmm... wonder if a la carte is available for these yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted November 14, 2006 Share #79 Posted November 14, 2006 ya david.. thanks... i see your words as a kind of comfirmation of my though.... i think this can be very convinient to make print media repros on that epson... it makes a3 size.. so pretty good..... what i may actually do is that i will reproduce it with the same physical size.... for that, the epson quality is good enough as u comfirm. i have tried on my current scanner to make 8x10" print repro and it looked good after some little editing and fine tuning (it8 profiling prior to it of course). lith prints looked good, normal silver prints, as well as colour... even some old stuff from my fathers and grandfathers prints looked great after scanning.... again, at the same physical size... and the big surface of the scanner is also cool.... i wil be able to run twice more film at the same time.... ya man... of course for fast proofs.... for serious scans i will continue to use the top scanning services... after i will have the digi back it will be even eassier and better solutions for me... david, one more question man.... suppose i put about a3 size print on the epson 1000.... now, suppose that i want to make a print repro of it but not at its real physical size, but at more enlarged.... say: from 12x16" print from darkroom ->> to 30x40" (or slightly more)..... do u think the digradation will be substential.... the heidelberg scanner (dont know which model was used there) made a very good job for it.... will epson be able to do about the same ???? or in other words.... what would be a resonably good enlarged print repro on epson ??? (your aproximation of course more or less), cause if what i say now about enlarging is not that good, then it might be better to stay (always) with scanning the negative (i mean b/w mostly) rite on the high end scanner like the same imacon or creo... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidada Posted November 14, 2006 Share #80 Posted November 14, 2006 Vic - from a print you should be able to enlarge 400% the larger the original the better. You know it is strange because sometimes film scanners are to agressive they lock onto the grain and reproduce it quite sharply. When you scaan from a silver print or C- print the print has already sublimated the grain- so with a flat bed you are scanning the print plus the sublimation effect. In a way you get closer to the feel of the original print than rescanning fom a neg - I hope this makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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