jcraf Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share #21 Posted March 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) A practical alternative to the cost and size of the WATE (but not its superb quality or Leica 'look') is the Voigtlander 15m f/4.5 Super Wide Heliar aspherical. This tiny little, inexpensive lens is a surprisingly good performer and will offer you an opportunity to decide if a 15/16 mm lens on your M8 suits you before putting down serious money. Pete. Thanks for the advice everyone, but I buckled at the final hurdle (the bit where the credit card is whipped out) and have gone with Pete's advice for the 15mm CV with a 21mm finder. I'll use this for a bit whilst I'm finding my way around M8 photography and workflows, and then decide whether to go for the WATE. It's a bit of a shame to pass on the current UK 15% cashback deal, but there we are. Off thread a bit, but any pitfalls with the 15mm/M8 combo, aside from the non-RF coupling? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 9, 2009 Posted March 9, 2009 Hi jcraf, Take a look here To WATE or not to WATE?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gwelland Posted March 9, 2009 Share #22 Posted March 9, 2009 With respect to the 15mm CV - there's a slight challenge with UV/IR filter fitment. You can friction fit a 39mm filter (search the forum for examples) or John Milich has an excellent machined alternative that fits seamlessly between the hood and body and will handle a LEICA UV/IR filter. I highlight the Leica brand filter as this will correct any UV/IR color fringing. The other consideration is that you need to code the screw/M-bayonet adapter (28mm) to match the Wide Angle Tri-Elmar. (Again another plug for John Milich's brass codable ring adapter but there are other choices). If you're going down the CV route then the 12mm makes an ideal super wide companion to the 15mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 9, 2009 Share #23 Posted March 9, 2009 Congratulations on making your choice, there're no wrong answers in this thread and I hope you're as impressed by the 'Humble Heliar' as I was <grins>. I predict that you'll 'outgrow' it and maybe go for the 18 Super Elmar or Distagon eventually but I have a sneaking suspicion that you'll have difficulty parting with the Heliar. Incidentally, you'll need to work out how to keep a UV/IR filter on the front and there are numerous ways cited on this site from rubber tap washers to John Milich's phantasmogoric hood that also holds the filter. Personally I use a couple of pieces of thin foam tape that have adhesive on one side, one stuck at 12 o'clock the other at 3 o'clock on the small built-in shade so that the E39 UV/IR wedges into them It's very important to remember to turn the filter back to front to prevent the filter touching the protruding front element. I've been using my Heliar like this for nearly 3 years and the filter's never fallen out yet. I'd also recommend going for John Milich's LTM to M-mount adaptor with the slots for self-coding the Heliar as a 16 mm WATE because it makes a quite a difference with this effective field of view. Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgay Posted March 9, 2009 Share #24 Posted March 9, 2009 I bought the Wate to get the Frankenfinder. Yep, planned to sell the Wate at a profit getting the Frankenfinder for free. I loved both and kept both. Most people who criticise the Frankenfinder are Internet bystanders. In size it's a close copy of a traditional Leica external light meter, in practice it's so bright that one play with it conviced my brother-in-law to drop $2k on Leica binoculars. Bottom line: if you don't need it (or can't afford it) you won't like it. If you need it, you'll love it. Ps I bought a stand alone 21mm Zeiss finder for $400 and still prefer the Frankenfinder Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted March 9, 2009 Author Share #25 Posted March 9, 2009 Thanks for that advice Pete. Give the slightly fiddly nature of fitting an UV/IR to the Heliar, can I get away without it, given that I will shoot/process mainly to B&W with the M8? And in fact, how much of an issue is the magenta cast in outdoor colour photography? Sorry for these apparently elementary questions, but it's a really big learning curve for me after using Nikons for the past few years! Also, how do I get hold of one of the Milich screw to M adapters, and pending doing so, how good is the 'Sharpie' felt pen coding solution on the Voigtander adapter which I'll be using to start with? Cheers John Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted March 9, 2009 Share #26 Posted March 9, 2009 I have to admit, I'm rather envious of those who can afford Leica glass. Having shelled out to get the M8, I'm having to stick with the Voigtlander 28mm F2 Ultron as my next lens. The joys of being a working, chasing invoices, photographer! You shouldn't feel envious: if you get a good copy of the CV 28/2, I suspect you are going to love it, just as I Iike and enjoy mine - and I also own quite a bit of Leica glass... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 9, 2009 Share #27 Posted March 9, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) John, I found the colour shift distracting although more the yellow-greens than magenta blacks because I tended to use the 15 Heliar predominantly as a landscape lens. I rarely convert landscapes to black and white because I cut my teeth on Velvia in medium format so squeezing the colour out of landscapes seems like sacrilege to me (YMMV) so I can't help there. John Milich machines the adaptors out of solid brass as a sideline to his 'day job' and they are of superb quality. You'll need to email him at jm@milich.com and be a little patient because he tends to be quite busy and sometimes takes a little while to respond. The sharpies are quite good but I find that they need to be re-done quite often especially if your changing lenses regularly and its not obvious when the coding stops working unless you're deliberately chimping for it but who does that? It can also be frustrating sometimes getting your M8 to recognise the coding with a sharpie and I've had better success with an M Lens Coder kit from Tim Isaacs although that's similarly short-term. (In the UK order here.) Pete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaMSeattle Posted March 10, 2009 Share #28 Posted March 10, 2009 My experience with the CV12mm with it lack of RF coupling is that the you just need to be aware of what is in front of you and its relative distance to be sure that it is within your set focus distance and the DOF takes care of the rest. I'd imagine the CV15 would be similar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted March 10, 2009 Share #29 Posted March 10, 2009 thanks for all the positive comments. i'm still making adapters...made another run of Wate adapters yesterday jm@milich.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share #30 Posted March 10, 2009 Thanks everyone - I really appreciate your comments and help, as someone who is newly fumbling around in the world of the M8!! Regards John Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj55 Posted March 10, 2009 Share #31 Posted March 10, 2009 Just read this thread. Its the same lens combo I use as well! All very small, which means a big thing for me. I glued a 37-46 stepup ring to my (flattened) CV15. Thus the Leica 46 filter works! There are some pictures with a 37-43 stepup ring elsewhere on this forum. Good luck - happy shooting! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share #32 Posted March 10, 2009 As someone well known for his impetuousity, I have now decided to go for the WATE, and have returned the CV15mm untouched for a full refund against the Leica lens. I couldn't resist the lure of the WATE, and with the Leica 15% rebate, all told I will have paid £2408 (with Frankenfinder) from Robert White. That I think is the best deal in the UK. Some of the UK dealers are effectively charging just over £3000 (AFTER the 15% rebate), so I feel smug!! I am told that Leica lenses in UK are just about to go up significantly as well (the WATE by a staggering £600 according to Robert White's) so even smugger. The downside is that I will now be living on bread and water for the next year. Still, I can't WAIT to get the WATE......it should be here tomorrow or Thursday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted March 10, 2009 Share #33 Posted March 10, 2009 As someone well known for his impetuousity, I have now decided to go for the WATE Congrats! You will not regret your purchase. Please realize that for easy handling a Milich adapter (his emailadres in this thread, and he just made a new bactch) is essential. The adapter needs a Leica UV/IR filter size 49mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjr Posted March 10, 2009 Share #34 Posted March 10, 2009 Buy it....and the finder but can you get one ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted March 10, 2009 Share #35 Posted March 10, 2009 Congrats. I have the WATE and really like it. I like it so much that I'm not even considering the new Leica 18 or 21. You will find a big difference between the 18mm and the 16mm on your WATE. You'll be glad that you have 16mm. You will also like being able to shoot the 21mm as well. I have the 21mm/28mm compact finder from Ricoh and use it over the Frankenfinder for travel. It is relatively cheap and works well. But, I agree with others that the Frankenfinder is about as good as it gets. I just like the smaller finder for travel plus I just chimp the screen to fine tune. Did I mention the WATE makes great travel pictures? Definitely, get John's adapter. Great guy. You will love it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgopinath Posted March 10, 2009 Share #36 Posted March 10, 2009 Does anyone know whether purchases from the US from Robert White would be eligible for the 15% lens discount? Some of their prices are very attractive with the current exchange rate. Regards Prabah Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share #37 Posted March 10, 2009 Congrats. I have the WATE and really like it. I like it so much that I'm not even considering the new Leica 18 or 21. Thanks for that. I was in a London Leica dealer today, and asked to see a WATE (although I had made my mind up to buy one anyway - for a better price, mail order, from another dealer). This dealer had just had his first 18mm go out to a customer, and said that with the arrival of the new fast f1.4 wides as well, he doesn't now hold WATEs as stock items so couldn't show me one........ I thought this really odd, since the price of the new f1.4s is truly astronomical, so I don't see them as a substitute or even competitors to the WATE and it's concept. Anyhow, can't WAIT!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share #38 Posted March 10, 2009 Does anyone know whether purchases from the US from Robert White would be eligible for the 15% lens discount? Some of their prices are very attractive with the current exchange rate. Regards Prabah Prabah I would doubt it - the promotion is via Leica UK and they pay you by cheque (check) in British Pounds, so you'd need a British Bank Account to deposit it (and probably a British address to send it to). Might be worth talking to Leica UK Sales - ++441908 256400 or sales@leica-camera.co.uk Regards John Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saloti Posted March 10, 2009 Share #39 Posted March 10, 2009 I do not want to miss the WATE. After byuing the 16-18-21 I bought the 28-35-50 -second hand- as well. Quiet often I am outside in the mountains just with these two lenses, very weight- and volume efficient. Go for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcraf Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share #40 Posted March 13, 2009 Well, the WATE arrived yesterday from Robert White. The Passport application and 15% rebate forms are in the post to Leica already! In preparation, I also ordered a mint used 67mm IV/IR and a new 14 473 filter adapter from Ffordes, which saved me a bit of dosh. I know many here are big fans of JM's adapter, but I thought I'd go with the Leica stuff initially and then decide. First impressions.....(remember, I'm returning to an M from a Nikon D3) .......my god, this is a cumbersome piece of kit if you include the Frankenfinder, and the need to (remember to) set the finder, as well as focal length in the camera menu options....... ......what is this monstrous 67mm UV/IR setup all about, and why can't they design something for use with the standard hood and cap?? (I know JM has) And then I took some pictures..... This lens is, quite simply, incredible and wonderfully versatile. I have never used a TE on any M, so this was a real revelation. It has the Leica DNA in spades. And it's lighter and more compact than I thought. One very quickly adapts to the 'workflow' of having 2 viewfinders (nothing new in that), and having to change settings in-camera and also on the F-F. I tried 16m stuff without the UV/IR and found it a no-go, and of course worse at 16mm than 21mm. And you know what - I felt like I was taking photographs again, because I was thinking much more about all aspects of the process. Nothing wrong with the D3, but out there this afternoon, I had come home. I still don't like the Leica 67mm filter lashup, but for the moment I've ordered a Leica R 67mm lens cap (£10 new old stock from Mr Cad - he has a few in stock) so I can leave the Leica 67mm set up in place on the lens in my bag. I know I'll still have to watch for crud because I suspect it'll get in through the adapter slots even with the black blanking donut in place. I may go to JM in the future once the credit card has cooled down. So all in all, I'm really pleased and very impressed with the WATE so far. And I'll be even more pleased when I get my £460 rebate from Leica UK. Thanks again to all those whose advice ultimately swayed me to go for this little beauty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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