russell c. greenberg Posted February 28, 2009 Share #141 Posted February 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Russell, sorry, but I don't think I've ever seen a thread so comprehensively hi-jacked... Assuming you have downloaded the zipped file from the Leica web-site, you simply have to open the ZIP file using Windows explorer and then drag the file (say) to your desktop where it will be unzipped on the way. You can then copy that to the root folder of an SD card and you'll be all set. Seems to me that if even this is too tough for you to accomplish, you should be enlisting the help of one of those monosyllabic adolescents from your neighbourhood, you know, the ones who think it's the height of sartorial elegance to wear a baseball cap on back to front... You might even think of taking a night-class to hone your computing skills, I'm sure they exist in New Jersey. Mark, I never intended to hijack this thread, but in doing so, I have received much supportive help from fellow forum members, including you. Sorry for the hijack. Russell Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 28, 2009 Posted February 28, 2009 Hi russell c. greenberg, Take a look here M8 Firmware 2.004. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Vieri Posted February 28, 2009 Share #142 Posted February 28, 2009 You know all of this a fact? Or, are you just projecting your personal opinion onto the company? You seem like a real, "Glass Half Full" kind of guy... I bet you'd be upset if we hung you - because we didn't use a new rope... Since you don't own an M8 - why do you even care? Nobody do know this for a fact - and all we express here is opinions, more or less grounded, logical and reasonable. You don't like what I have to say, fine, you are as free to do so as I am free to express whatever opinion I find logical and reasonable. If you do have a different, more logical and more reasonable opinion about why Leica delayed the delayed release (pun intended), please enlighten us. Otherwise, I stick with my interpretation, which makes a lot of sense to me. On the contrary, I am a very optimistic person, thank you very much, and thankfully people is not free anymore to go around and hung other people, despite what you seem to be wanting. Who is this "we", by the way, I wonder. As far as your last sentence, wrong again: first of all, I did own 2 M8s for about 1 year, and then sold them when I decided to stick with film Ms for the moment; more, who ever said that owning an M8 is a condition to be able to post in the Forum, and more than that, to have opinions about it? That is plain nonsense, of course - I am sure you have opinions about a lot of things that you never owned or experienced, some you just showed in your post above about me - so, there you go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe D. Posted February 28, 2009 Share #143 Posted February 28, 2009 Hi Russell, I have received much supportive help from fellow forum membersDid you read those Instructions published by Leica? http://us.leica-camera.com/assets/file/download.php?filename=file_3970.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 28, 2009 Share #144 Posted February 28, 2009 At the risk of a brief further hijack of the thread: Thanks for the notes of condolences re the closing of the Rocky Mountain News and various responses to providing me with FW 2.004. I'll get back to each of you by Monday. Not sure of future plans until I see what operating capital I'll get in severance. As Leica will surely want to note, a business can only lose 25 million a year for so long before something gives. I feel worse about the loss of the paper itself after 150 years than my own condition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted February 28, 2009 Share #145 Posted February 28, 2009 Andy, I too was really sorry to hear your news and spent some time looking at the RMN web-site. It's clear there's a real sense of loss and not just from within the company. I hope you can find something which plays to your strengths. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted February 28, 2009 Share #146 Posted February 28, 2009 I am talking about the delay mode, which Leica should have included in FW for the M8 from the beginning, but choose not to and didn't (to boost M8.2 sales, or at least not to trump them: being the M8.2 a very weak update it needed all it could get as far as differencing between M8 & M8.2). As it happens Vieri, and I see you have been getting some stick for this, I happen to agree with you. If I had been able merely to do the shutter upgrade to an M8 and use a FW update to get the discreet mode, I would not have purchased an M8.2 And for anyone taking a pop at Vieri, he's a thoughtful, well-informed. reasonable guy and a very good photographer. So there! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 28, 2009 Share #147 Posted February 28, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) All our wishes with you, Andy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted February 28, 2009 Share #148 Posted February 28, 2009 Andy, I saw your name among the casualties in the farewell issue of RMN--bummer! If need be, you're welcome to stop by my Lakewood workplace and I'll copy the thing onto an SD card for you. As for the M8, I thought someone should mention that this will be at least the 3rd significant improvement or additional feature they've made despite never officially promising it: 1) Improved white balance 2) SDHC support 3) Descreet mode Not too shabby for a camera that came out nearly 3 years ago. Jeff And now I wait for a more bits-per-pixel update! alberti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc yyy Posted February 28, 2009 Share #149 Posted February 28, 2009 If I had been able merely to do the shutter upgrade to an M8 and use a FW update to get the discreet mode, I would not have purchased an M8.2 and in a few days you'll be able to do just that ... in case you're contemplating another m8.2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc yyy Posted February 28, 2009 Share #150 Posted February 28, 2009 However, nobody seem to notice that Leica waited for M8.2 sales to decline, and once they decided that the "discreet mode" allure was over they finally did what they should have done in the first place: give the update to the old M8s as well. actually, i think Leica waited for you to sell your two M8s (and move to the film Ms) before they decided to release the "discrete mode" update ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieri Posted February 28, 2009 Share #151 Posted February 28, 2009 As it happens Vieri, and I see you have been getting some stick for this, I happen to agree with you. If I had been able merely to do the shutter upgrade to an M8 and use a FW update to get the discreet mode, I would not have purchased an M8.2 And for anyone taking a pop at Vieri, he's a thoughtful, well-informed. reasonable guy and a very good photographer. So there! Hello Tim, how are you? Long time no see! Thank you for your support and for your very kind words, very much appreciated - not easy here to say something against the religious love for Leica... am sorry that you had to fork out for the M8.2 to get the upgrade you needed, but I trust that anyway it is a great camera and it serves you well actually, i think Leica waited for you to sell your two M8s (and move to the film Ms) before they decided to release the "discrete mode" update ... Cyberean, thank you for your snappy smarta.$ comments both to my and to Tim's reply, they exactly prove my point about daring to touch the Leica love around here. About my M8s, no worries - I wouldn't have kept them even knowing about this FW and wouldn't have upgraded them to the new shutter; last, if you have to know, I actually sold them right last summer, well before Leica decided to release this FW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nugat Posted February 28, 2009 Share #152 Posted February 28, 2009 I bet you'd be upset if we hung you - because we didn't use a new rope... Please use the JOKE signs next time you tell one... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted February 28, 2009 Share #153 Posted February 28, 2009 Philippe, indeed - I haven't been impressed by the M8, as much as you made your religion on it. I am not waiting for the M9 or for a FF Leica; I am not consistently bashing Leica, on the contrary I love Leica cameras & optics, so much that I have 6 Leica cameras & 7 Leica lenses that I use almost every day; I just call it as I see it on Leica's marketing & policies, hoping that this will help some. I choose not to make a religion of it, and I choose not to be blind and not to accept whatever comes from Leica as the gospel as many on these fora regularly do. I also decided not to accept being bashed for doing so, incidentally. In this case, not giving the delay in FW when they could have just to boost M8.2 sales & giving it after these sales peaked seems to me to be not much of an ethical behavior for a company. You seems to think that their survival as a company justifies everything and anything, I do think it might and should stop short of pulling their customer base's leg - however, it seems that people either don't notice or they are happy all the same, so more power to Leica. Leica is, for most, a religion more than a tool - this affords the company a leeway that other company don't have with their customer base; and Leica is, most definitely, taking advantage of it and lately this happens more often than not (maybe due to the harder times plus the digital revolution) - which is exactly what I don't like when I see it. the thing is, it is a two way street. Obviously it was a marketing decision to support the 8.2 and not the original 8's as a way to drive sales. But the trouble with Leica is that they are always competing with products they have already sold. A lot of the trade in Leica is used, and they don't see a dime of that. A legacy that is both their strength and their weakness. So we get the benefit of that and the downside too, just like they do. I can uses lenses back to the beginning on the 8 if I want. My investment in glass is secure. On the flip side, I could have gotten snookered into trading my 8 for an 8.2. Well, they got me anyway, I upgraded, knowing at the time that I was not getting the one thing that I really wanted the delayed release. And I am happy with the new shutter because it really is what it should have been to be honest. This just mitigates some of the pain of the upgrade cost which was significant. I think releasing this now shows a willingness to be loyal and be a business at the same time. To compete with new products and still support old products that might actually hurt future sales. It is a delicate balancing act. But we get the upside too. I don't see it as taking advantage, or being smarmy about marketing. It is reality. There are many examples that I think are worse, the Adobe upgrade tax when new raw codecs have to be supported and they don't make camara raw backwards compatible being one. They get their 199 every 18 months assuming I buy a new camera. It makes a compelling case for sticking to film based capture, certainly. If I had clients who still supported that, then I'd actually have a choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pklein Posted February 28, 2009 Share #154 Posted February 28, 2009 No one but Leica really knows why they chose to release the delayed shutter cock now rather than earlier. It might be hardnosed marketing. Or it might be that the code had to be adapted to work with both the old and the new shutter, and the one staff person who knew how to do that was busy with other things. Or both. My own take is that not releasing the "discrete shutter" code for M8s was probably a reasonable business decision at the beginning, since it might have hurt M8.2 sales. But it's an equally good decision to release it now. Those who bought the M8.2 to get the discrete shutter, who might have simply upgraded the firmware in their original M8 if they could, have made their decision. Owners of the original M8, who (like me) decided that the M8.2 wasn't a sufficent upgrade for the price, have long since spoken by not buying the newer model. We can now get the new firmware, be happy, and post positive remarks on Internet forums, thereby spreading good "buzz" for Leica. I have much the same attitude about a lens-type menu for uncoded lenses. Coding old lenses is probably a significant source of revenue for Leica, and they don't want to give that up. But there will come a point, probably soon, when most people who would have sent their lenses to Leica for coding will have done so. The rest of us will have made other arrangements: Live without it, get Millich adapters, do our own coding by hand. At that point, it makes sense to release a lens menu in the firmware, with a disclaimer that the best results happen with Leica-coded lenses. Leica loses nothing, and they gain goodwill and positive buzz. (How do you say "hint, hint" in German?) --Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted February 28, 2009 Share #155 Posted February 28, 2009 A good belly dancer does not drop all her veils in the first dance... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc yyy Posted February 28, 2009 Share #156 Posted February 28, 2009 Cyberean, thank you for your snappy smarta.$ comments both to my and to Tim's reply, they exactly prove my point about daring to touch the Leica love around here. About my M8s, no worries - I wouldn't have kept them even knowing about this FW and wouldn't have upgraded them to the new shutter; last, if you have to know, I actually sold them right last summer, well before Leica decided to release this FW. you're quite welcome ... and thank you for enlightening us with your conspiracy theories and your self-absorbed drivel ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nugat Posted February 28, 2009 Share #157 Posted February 28, 2009 (How do you say "hint, hint" in German?) --Peter You don't. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vieri Posted February 28, 2009 Share #158 Posted February 28, 2009 the thing is, it is a two way street. Obviously it was a marketing decision to support the 8.2 and not the original 8's as a way to drive sales. But the trouble with Leica is that they are always competing with products they have already sold. A lot of the trade in Leica is used, and they don't see a dime of that. A legacy that is both their strength and their weakness. So we get the benefit of that and the downside too, just like they do. I can uses lenses back to the beginning on the 8 if I want. My investment in glass is secure. On the flip side, I could have gotten snookered into trading my 8 for an 8.2. Well, they got me anyway, I upgraded, knowing at the time that I was not getting the one thing that I really wanted the delayed release. And I am happy with the new shutter because it really is what it should have been to be honest. This just mitigates some of the pain of the upgrade cost which was significant. I think releasing this now shows a willingness to be loyal and be a business at the same time. To compete with new products and still support old products that might actually hurt future sales. It is a delicate balancing act. But we get the upside too. I don't see it as taking advantage, or being smarmy about marketing. It is reality. There are many examples that I think are worse, the Adobe upgrade tax when new raw codecs have to be supported and they don't make camara raw backwards compatible being one. They get their 199 every 18 months assuming I buy a new camera. It makes a compelling case for sticking to film based capture, certainly. If I had clients who still supported that, then I'd actually have a choice. Robert, very wise words. Agreed, but one annotation: the second hand market, while doesn't bring a dime to Leica directly on those sales, definitely brings more customers to the brand (let's not forget the very high "cost of admission" of buying all new stuff to get into the Leica club) and this eventually brings to purchases of new equipment. Most of us have been through this "initiation" process when got to use Leica, and I think very few of us just kept buying used stuff without ever buying anything new from them. Besides, we can buy used stuff from every brand, if we so choose. No one but Leica really knows why they chose to release the delayed shutter cock now rather than earlier. It might be hardnosed marketing. Or it might be that the code had to be adapted to work with both the old and the new shutter, and the one staff person who knew how to do that was busy with other things. Or both. My own take is that not releasing the "discrete shutter" code for M8s was probably a reasonable business decision at the beginning, since it might have hurt M8.2 sales. But it's an equally good decision to release it now. Those who bought the M8.2 to get the discrete shutter, who might have simply upgraded the firmware in their original M8 if they could, have made their decision. Owners of the original M8, who (like me) decided that the M8.2 wasn't a sufficent upgrade for the price, have long since spoken by not buying the newer model. We can now get the new firmware, be happy, and post positive remarks on Internet forums, thereby spreading good "buzz" for Leica. I have much the same attitude about a lens-type menu for uncoded lenses. Coding old lenses is probably a significant source of revenue for Leica, and they don't want to give that up. But there will come a point, probably soon, when most people who would have sent their lenses to Leica for coding will have done so. The rest of us will have made other arrangements: Live without it, get Millich adapters, do our own coding by hand. At that point, it makes sense to release a lens menu in the firmware, with a disclaimer that the best results happen with Leica-coded lenses. Leica loses nothing, and they gain goodwill and positive buzz. (How do you say "hint, hint" in German?) --Peter Peter, agreed with you - as well, it's very reasonable to assume that at some point they will release lens coding by menu; however, given the number of used lenses out there and still waiting to be eventually coded at some point, I am skeptical that we will see this anytime soon you're quite welcome ... and thank you for enlightening us with your conspiracy theories and your self-absorbed drivel ... My pleasure. Though, from your responses, it seems pretty difficult to imagine that you could effectively be enlightened on anything. Conspiracy theory? No, I'd say marketing - more or less ruthless - as others have easily understood (see various posts on this thread), but not you evidently; self-absorbed drivel? Oh, c'mon please. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamriman Posted February 28, 2009 Share #159 Posted February 28, 2009 I would have been very pissed off if I bought an M8.2. I feel for all those who bought it for the discreet mode. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nugat Posted February 28, 2009 Share #160 Posted February 28, 2009 you're quite welcome ... and thank you for enlightening us with your conspiracy theories and your self-absorbed drivel ... Geez, Who are these people? Even recently there was no high school level snark around here, mostly mature individuals exchanging opinions. Is the cheaper M8 attracting new customers so quickly? Crisis or what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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