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Lasex

A second hand M8 - waste of money?

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A new M8 is now listed at 3198 euros incl. tax (at leicashop in Vienna, for example). Thus I wonder whether buying a second hand M8 is any good idea anymore, because they still seem to go for over 2200 euros on the "fleabay" even though some of them are nearly 2 years old, warranty is almost out and some don't come with any IR filters, either. That's more than 2/3rds of the price of a brand new one. Too much in digital days.

 

And isn't a M8 a little outdated already, with all that noise at high ISO etc? Maybe Leica will soon upgrade M8.2 with a new sensor with low noise and good dynamic range even at ISO800 and higher? Then having bought a second hand first generation digital M8 at 2000 + Euros will be a really poor investment - or do you disagree?

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What exactly is the point of your post, if not to wind up M8 owners?

 

Nail, head, hit...

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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I am not trying to provocate or wind up anyone. I am just wondering if 2/3rds or more of a brand new M8s price isn't a litte bit too much to pay given the fact that a digital camera will be obsolete in a much shorter time than, lets say, a M4 was in it's heyday.

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I am not trying to provocate or wind up anyone. I am just wondering if 2/3rds or more of a brand new M8s price isn't a litte bit too much to pay given the fact that a digital camera will be obsolete in a much shorter time than, lets say, a M4 was in it's heyday.

 

We think you are a troll because you seem to have a predisposed attitude about money, Ebay, and the Leica M8...

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We think you are a troll because you seem to have a predisposed attitude about money, Ebay, and the Leica M8...

 

A little quick to this conclusion?

 

I actually agree - if Lasex is right about the prices, then for the small difference in cost, wouldn't you also rather buy a new M8 than a second hand one and especially one from eBay?

 

Where I disagree is about the "soon to be obsolete" - something is only obsolete when you no longer have a use for it. By this standard my Sony video camera was obsolete about 3 days after I got it because I realised I didnt have the computing power to do anything with the videos I produced and so used the VGA from my P&S far more. The M8 will only be obsolete for me after I BUY the M9 and not when the M9 is released. Or another line of thought would be that something is only obsolete when your talents exceed that of the equipment, in which case even my Canon A1 is still not obsolete and neither is my 2MegaPixel Nikon P&S.

 

Ravi

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because they still seem to go for over 2200 euros on the "fleabay" even though some of them are nearly 2 years old, warranty is almost out and some don't come with any IR filters, either. That's more than 2/3rds of the price of a brand new one. Too much in digital days.

 

And isn't a M8 a little outdated already, with all that noise at high ISO etc? Maybe Leica will soon upgrade M8.2 with a new sensor with low noise and good dynamic range even at ISO800 and higher? Then having bought a second hand first generation digital M8 at 2000 + Euros will be a really poor investment - or do you disagree?

The fact that an old and decrepit 2nd hand M8 is still pitching in at these prices should answer your question clearly enough:

 

.........................................No it is not a waste of money.

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A s/h M8 will only sell for what someone is prepared to pay for it. If the going rate is approx 2/3 the new price then that's what it is - end of.

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A new M8 is now listed at 3198 euros incl. tax (at leicashop in Vienna, for example). Thus I wonder whether buying a second hand M8 is any good idea anymore, because they still seem to go for over 2200 euros on the "fleabay" even though some of them are nearly 2 years old, warranty is almost out and some don't come with any IR filters, either. That's more than 2/3rds of the price of a brand new one. Too much in digital days.

 

And isn't a M8 a little outdated already, with all that noise at high ISO etc? Maybe Leica will soon upgrade M8.2 with a new sensor with low noise and good dynamic range even at ISO800 and higher? Then having bought a second hand first generation digital M8 at 2000 + Euros will be a really poor investment - or do you disagree?

 

Its a reasonable question. No different than buying most products new verse used. It will really depend on how much you can afford to invest and how you plan to use the M8. If price has been holding you back ..and new isn t reasonable ...then a used M8 (still many available at great prices) . If you buy used and later decide ....this isn t for me ..you will lose less in the process.

 

The new camera you should be comparing it to should be the M8.2 and at 2200 E (used) thats maybe 40% of a new camera.

 

The other alternative you didn t mention is a used M8 with the shutter upgrade. The new shutter is a big improvement and the warranty protects your investment.

 

From a purely financial perspective ....find a perfect used M8 ...use it for a year . If you look you should find several each week on the various forums .

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A new M8 is now listed at 3198 euros incl. tax (at leicashop in Vienna, for example). Thus I wonder whether buying a second hand M8 is any good idea anymore, because they still seem to go for over 2200 euros on the "fleabay" even though some of them are nearly 2 years old, warranty is almost out and some don't come with any IR filters, either. That's more than 2/3rds of the price of a brand new one. Too much in digital days.

 

And isn't a M8 a little outdated already, with all that noise at high ISO etc? Maybe Leica will soon upgrade M8.2 with a new sensor with low noise and good dynamic range even at ISO800 and higher? Then having bought a second hand first generation digital M8 at 2000 + Euros will be a really poor investment - or do you disagree?

 

poked a hornets nest with that one

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A new M8 is now listed at 3198 euros incl. tax (at leicashop in Vienna, for example). Thus I wonder whether buying a second hand M8 is any good idea anymore, because they still seem to go for over 2200 euros on the "fleabay" even though some of them are nearly 2 years old, warranty is almost out and some don't come with any IR filters, either. That's more than 2/3rds of the price of a brand new one. Too much in digital days.

 

And isn't a M8 a little outdated already, with all that noise at high ISO etc? Maybe Leica will soon upgrade M8.2 with a new sensor with low noise and good dynamic range even at ISO800 and higher? Then having bought a second hand first generation digital M8 at 2000 + Euros will be a really poor investment - or do you disagree?

Why buying M8 should be investment? Its camera and not expensive one ether - at this level it cost as much as couple of good bottle of wine, so who cares? Buy it, use it, throw it away...

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A new M8 is now listed at 3198 euros incl. tax (at leicashop in Vienna, for example). Thus I wonder whether buying a second hand M8 is any good idea anymore, because they still seem to go for over 2200 euros on the "fleabay" even though some of them are nearly 2 years old, warranty is almost out and some don't come with any IR filters, either. That's more than 2/3rds of the price of a brand new one. Too much in digital days.

 

And isn't a M8 a little outdated already, with all that noise at high ISO etc? Maybe Leica will soon upgrade M8.2 with a new sensor with low noise and good dynamic range even at ISO800 and higher? Then having bought a second hand first generation digital M8 at 2000 + Euros will be a really poor investment - or do you disagree?

You can sometimes find clean M8's that have had the upgrades done for the same price as your new one without upgrades. That's what I would look for if buying a used one and (you'll have to check on this) but once the new shutter is put in they get a 1 year extended warranty. You probably already know this but there is an M8.2. Any digital camera made within 6 months ago is already outdated so personally I think it's a good time to pick up an 8.

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I am not trying to provocate or wind up anyone. I am just wondering if 2/3rds or more of a brand new M8s price isn't a litte bit too much to pay given the fact that a digital camera will be obsolete in a much shorter time than, lets say, a M4 was in it's heyday.

 

 

As long as it does what you want it to do, it won't be obsolete. I am fairly certain, however, that you can find good used M8s for less than what you are quoting. Check around. You should be able to find them at half the new price.

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Then having bought a second hand first generation digital M8 at 2000 + Euros will be a really poor investment - or do you disagree?

 

If you plan to buy M8 for investment, don't buy one.

If you plan to use it, you won't regret.

 

Never see any digital camera price goes up.

Poor investment? Consider buy gold or diamond?

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Ok, perhaps "obsolete" is a too strong an expression. But M8 will be outdated compared to the newer high end digital cameras in quite a short time. Regardless of that there is no doubt that it can still produce pictures that technically are very good.

 

I have a M2 from 1966, and it is not outdated or obsolete in any respect as what it is: a mechanical precision camera for 35mm film. Now I'd really like to have a M8. But it really can't compete with new high end SLRs at 800ISO and higher, and the difference will grow.

 

The relatively high prices of the used M8s compared to a new one are obviously due to the fact that there just aren't so many used M8s around to buy. But personally I don't think a 3 year old used digital camera without warranty is a very good buy if it costs 2/3rds of a brand new one - I'd rather buy a new one with warranty in that case.

 

Btw, yesterday I looked at the second hand shelves at one local camera store. Lots of Canon 1Ds there, from MkI to Mk III. A rather clean looking Canon 1D Mk I body was to be had for something like 430 euros, and the US retail price as new 7 years ago was 8000$, that is about 16 times more! That is the kind of price you can think as acceptable for an outdated digital camera - even though a 1D MkI can still take beautiful pictures =).

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Hi there Lasex,

 

You have just proved a point. You could not give away a second hand, two year old Canon/Nikon/Sony, unless you literally paid someone to take it. That is the difference between Leica Equipment and other manufacturers. It keeps it's value - just look at the used market. Lenses that were made in the 1940's through to the 1960's still have extreme value. Once you start talking about lenses made in the 70's and 80's, it is more worthwhile to buy new than used.

 

Even by today's standard, the M8 still put's the competition to shame (fair enough, not at high ISO's - but this does not bother me since I do 99% of my work during the day/evening where I can still hand hold a 1.4 lens at ISO 160 without problem, while the other guys have switched to huge flash units and ISO 1600!!!).

 

Another example, I had a heavy investment in the Canon FD System - then Canon changed from FD to EOS and abandoned all the users and forced them to buy new. Today you can not even give away FD stuff anymore - no one wants it... Leica is backwards compatible in their camera's and lenses for over 50 years. You can still send Solms a 1920's Leica and they will repair and fix it - no question. I can not even get a shutter assembly for a 1986 Canon T90 anymore....

 

BTW, if Leica does release their Full Frame M sometime soon, I still would not get rid of my "ancient" original M8!!!

 

Andreas

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