LeonardT Posted February 18, 2009 Share #1 Posted February 18, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) The M4-P 70th Anniversary model was supposed to consist of 2500 bodies with special numbers between 1-500 after the letters L.E.I.C.A. A collector in my group wanted to buy one on the bay but the special number was E585, outside of the range. The body serial number fell within the correct range. After doing a quick search I found 3 other bodies outside the range, a 501, 565 and I585. Can these be genuine Leicas with erroneous numbers or are they counterfeits? This body is not necessarily bringing high prices and is actually cheaper to buy then a chrome original M4. So why would someone make one. Does anyone have any information on this? Len Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Hi LeonardT, Take a look here M4-P Anniversary numbers outside range. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted February 18, 2009 Share #2 Posted February 18, 2009 As you say, numbers > 500 are known... anyway, the number is also hand-written in the certificate which MUST accompany the camera... as you have said, the "1913-1983" M4P is not so rare, so it must be very complete to be considered a good collectible. I do not know if there is a record of the issued numbers... personally, I think that if a M4P with E585 on body and certificate is sold at a "usual" price, there is no reason for it's a forgery. (Much rarer are the misengraved "1813-1983"... probably a "voluntary error") Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
seneschal Posted April 24, 2021 Share #3 Posted April 24, 2021 Hi, Luigi, what do you mean by „voluntary error“ does that mean „deliberate“? I do not really understand why Leica would have mis-engraved a so-called limited edition and not corrected the mistake by replacing the top cover with a correctly engraved cover. If there was a batch of cameras which were mis-engraved, was it at the start of a run, the end or in the middle, I wonder? How did it happen, how many cameras was it and why wasn’t it noticed? What were the serial numbers and were they consecutive? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This is fascinating, can anyone shed any light on how this occurred. I’m astonished that this could happen, that it could get through QC and then the error is compounded by being sold as a premium product... in a box that was, no doubt, correctly printed. Is there any reference material on this subject? Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This is fascinating, can anyone shed any light on how this occurred. I’m astonished that this could happen, that it could get through QC and then the error is compounded by being sold as a premium product... in a box that was, no doubt, correctly printed. Is there any reference material on this subject? ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/77110-m4-p-anniversary-numbers-outside-range/?do=findComment&comment=4187622'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted April 24, 2021 Share #4 Posted April 24, 2021 Well... I simply reported the feel of Stephen Gandy 😉 ... https://cameraquest.com/lmp70.htm 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
seneschal Posted April 24, 2021 Share #5 Posted April 24, 2021 Wow! Luigi, I read Stephen’s article and the plot thickens! Politics, intrigue, revenge.... If a novelist were to write this stuff, no-one would believe it... but this is the real story of Leica! Fab. P Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted April 25, 2021 Share #6 Posted April 25, 2021 1813, a year Napoleon was emperor of France still. If he used a Leica camera or a binocular is not probable, but a pocket telescope to look at the Prussians could be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted April 25, 2021 Share #7 Posted April 25, 2021 Advertisement (gone after registration) Engravings will always lead to mistakes, extra copies and fakes. There is one genuine group of Leica cameras which refer to the 19th Century and that is the 3 engraved cameras which were raffled (Tombola) among Leitz employees for the 100th anniversary of the Leitz works in 1949. Back then, of course, a Leica was a camera made by Leitz. Other prizes at the raffle included 6 pairs of binoculars and some projectors. The book Museum Leica by Lars Netopil contains full details, including photographs of the 100th anniversary event and some contemporary written material. This camera, which is a IIc, later converted to a IIIf, was the second prize in the raffle. It is in the, as yet to be opened, Leica Museum. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I have no idea where the other two items are, but they have to be among the top Leica rarities of all time. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I have no idea where the other two items are, but they have to be among the top Leica rarities of all time. William ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/77110-m4-p-anniversary-numbers-outside-range/?do=findComment&comment=4188194'>More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted April 30, 2021 Share #8 Posted April 30, 2021 On 4/25/2021 at 4:58 AM, willeica said: Engravings will always lead to mistakes, extra copies and fakes. There is one genuine group of Leica cameras which refer to the 19th Century and that is the 3 engraved cameras which were raffled (Tombola) among Leitz employees for the 100th anniversary of the Leitz works in 1949. Back then, of course, a Leica was a camera made by Leitz. Other prizes at the raffle included 6 pairs of binoculars and some projectors. The book Museum Leica by Lars Netopil contains full details, including photographs of the 100th anniversary event and some contemporary written material. This camera, which is a IIc, later converted to a IIIf, was the second prize in the raffle. It is in the, as yet to be opened, Leica Museum. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I have no idea where the other two items are, but they have to be among the top Leica rarities of all time. William William, I have word that the Museum will actually open in November. I plan on being there! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted April 30, 2021 Share #9 Posted April 30, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, derleicaman said: William, I have word that the Museum will actually open in November. I plan on being there! That is good news if it is true. Travel within Europe is, as you know, very restricted at present. William Edited April 30, 2021 by willeica Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
seneschal Posted July 18, 2021 Share #10 Posted July 18, 2021 I loaded this up with Portra 160 and put the Motor M on it in a moment of insanity. There is no going back unless I get my hands inside a changing bag until the roll is finished. It‘s still quieter than an M9 but looking a bit „tall“ to me. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It‘s even taller with the Winder M on and noisier… it all begins to get a bit silly and „Nikon F(ish)“ Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It‘s even taller with the Winder M on and noisier… it all begins to get a bit silly and „Nikon F(ish)“ ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/77110-m4-p-anniversary-numbers-outside-range/?do=findComment&comment=4240712'>More sharing options...
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