Super fast 18mm llens

[charlesphoto99]

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Charles, I won't comment the price assessment, but IMHO making a "DX" lens just for the M8 it wouldn't probably have made that economic success at Leica.

Matter of fact how many M8s are on the market? And how many FF (film) M's are there too?(much more I'm sure).

The cost for developing a "DX" or "FF" lens it's probably the same, but once you have sold just few samples because you can sell those lenses just to the smaller part of your customers I guess you'd get an economic desease for the company.

My 2cents.

 

I actually agree. But it doesn't hurt to dream. If and when Leica ever puts out a FF M9, I doubt I'll be able to afford it for a long time considering how Leica prices are going. So I'll be shooting the M8 for a while to come.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Some comments make me crazy sorry. But here is the reality leica will make lenses it feels they need in the market but at the same time they really don't care what Zeiss and CV have out there already. Yes the Zeiss 18mm is a nice lens and i was one of the very first to have it along with Johns mount and it is a nice lens and it really makes no difference to Leica one way or another if it is out there. People will buy and i repeat will buy leica lenses because there leica lenses and one want leica glass no matter what the cost are and also don't want to screw around with Zeiss and CV and play the coding mount game. Be it you think it is right or wrong or it cost to little or too much it is what it is. No one is twisting your arm to by a Leica lens, there are plenty of folks that will buy them anyway and at whatever costs there is. This is just fact and I see this same debate go on and on for 2 years since the M8 is out. I have been through almost every lens out there be it Leica or Zeiss and at the end of the day i kept going back to the Leica glass and frankly so will a lot of people after awhile and leica is counting on it. How many of you are out there that bought a CV or Zeiss than decided oh hell let me buy the Leica one instead. Don't raise your hand to high the sky may come down with that one. I think we all forget we asked for this lens at least i did. I also asked for a 15 3.8 too and who knows if that may show up sometime. Not everyone wants a WATE or wants to pay that price either and some may want just one super wide in there kit. Leica finally got around to making one. BTW the Zeiss 18mm is a great lens but it also has some contrast to it that some may not want. I personally liked it but eventually went back to a leica 21mm 2.8 be it right or wrong many folks will try something and use it for awhile than switch out for something else , we are ALL guilty of that and a lot of folks went to Leica for there final chose . Do you honestly think Leica does not know some of these facts. Sure they do and will continue to make lenses for there line regardless of what others are making. Do you think Nikon or Canon actually cares what Sigma and Tamron are making and does not count on them doing the same exact thing of switching around glass, they will still make lenses they feel fit there line. Not owning the M8 right now the 18mm actually solves some issues if you want to stay Leica and do not want a WATE or a 21mm either.

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[Guest malland]

Guy, what you're, in effect, saying is that Leica does not have any commercial considerations or make economic calculations when decided how and whether to invest their funds in the production of lenses. They simply have to calculate how many lenses they have to produce to reach the break-even point for a new lens, and that has to include an assessment of the market and the competition, in order to make an adequate risk assessment.

 

—Mitch/Potomac. MD

Flickr: Mitch Alland's Photostream

Edited February 18, 2009 by malland

[stunsworth]

I read it more as meaning that Leica know their market.

[Guest guy_mancuso]

They know what they need out there to round the system. As soon as the WATE was announced and actually before that we all screamed we need really wides since this was a crop camera. The WATE appeared and yes in a sense was a good solution, issue was it was and is expensive but it was a solution. They certainly have to take in effect how many they will sell no question . Every company has to come up with a ROI on anything they build and Leica knows how many need to sell in the market to make it viable. But they also know what we need too and have to weigh that equation in and if there is enough interest than they will do it, okay that was all the business reasons. What we forget is the Pride we can build it reasons and Leica is i known for this and will build something that is for the brand and not so much the money, although some of these types of lenses have done well . Obviously the Nocti is one of those. It was we can build a f1 lens and we are going to be one of the companies that stands out and does it, did they need it. Big question and i guess in the old slow film days sure why not but the also built the fastest zoom for it's time the 35-70 2.8 which is killer and only 225 built before they realized it cost them more to build than they could sell it for. I paid over 6 grand for it and it was nuts but it was amazing and still is. This is something leica will pull out of there hat to say they are the best in the business at this and money is not always the issue. What I like to call the pride syndrome and not many companies will do this type of build. Leica is known for it and one reason why folks buy Leica , let's even forget the collectors on this one but they are huge numbers. Even today we don't need a Nocti given the ISO we can do but it still is a very popular lens with a look to it that nothing else has , just look at the new and used prices of it and that they sell tells the whole story. So somethings are hard to attach a real number to it and that is the risk lenses but sometimes those rewards pay off , the Nocti certainly has done that and they even ran short on production awhile back with the 30 percent off coupon. Leica still made money folks let's not kid ourselves but they also built that allure around the name which they have been doing for how many years now. Up until the issues with the M8 the Leica name was the gold standard and I agree the M8 had and does have some issues but even the worst enemies of there problems they still can't deny the darn file from it. No matter what anyone says it still is one of the best files around in 35mm bar none. Of course that will change with new cams coming but let's be real honest here folks they been holding the crown for awhile now as the DMR did also. I been down both paths and there hard to match when it comes to the image and reason we have dealt with things too.

 

I don't think we will see the last of more lenses coming and they continue to develop the next M8 and the glass for it . I still don't see anyone challenging them in RF. I see a much harder road for them with the S2 and R10 where stiff competition exists with MF today and with Sony, Nikon and Canon for the R10. The M has no competition at all and the only game in town if that is what you want to shoot. May sound like small numbers but they own a 100 percent market share .

Edited February 18, 2009 by guy_mancuso

[mat_mcdermott]

Well said, Guy. Nailed it.

[Mauribix]

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I think exactly the same Guy, they know exactly what they're doing, and they do it better than many onthers.

[stunsworth]

Guy, could you split your posts into more manageable paragraphs? I realise you may be posting from a portable device, but your posts are very difficult to read, and I confess I gave up on the last one.

 

Regards

[bill]

Guy, could you split your posts into more manageable paragraphs? I realise you may be posting from a portable device, but your posts are very difficult to read, and I confess I gave up on the last one.

 

Regards

 

Steve, whilst I agree, in Guy's defence I have to say that some portable devices ignore hard carriage returns on VBulletin posts. Guy may well be putting them in but they are not appearing. It's why I only read, but never post, from a mobile device. That said, I'm afraid I don't read the whole of Guy's posts because they make my eyes itch.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Hey what's a few condensed paragraphs amongst friends.

 

Sorry should have split that up a little , honestly I lose my train of thought when I do that. It's like taking a breath when you don't need it.

 

Let me see if I can edit a little , maybe too late. Looks like it is.

 

Just going to have to grin and bear it , like our economics here. LOL

Edited February 18, 2009 by guy_mancuso

[SJP]

EDIT:

Heywhat'safewcondensedparagraphsamongstfriends.Sorryshouldhavesplitthatupalittle,honestlyIlosemytrainofthoughtwhenIdothat.It'sliketakingabreathwhenyoudon'tneedit.LetmeseeifIcaneditalittle,maybetoolate.Lookslikeitis.Justgoingtohavetogrinandbearit,likeoureconomicshere.LOL

 

I think this is what was intended

 

BTW I agree with Guy I think Leica know what they are doing.

Edited February 19, 2009 by SJP

[bill]

Hey what's a few condensed paragraphs amongst friends.

 

Sorry should have split that up a little , honestly I lose my train of thought when I do that. It's like taking a breath when you don't need it.

 

Let me see if I can edit a little , maybe too late. Looks like it is.

 

Just going to have to grin and bear it , like our economics here. LOL

 

I take it back...

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest guy_mancuso]

ROTFLMAO.

 

I was being nice. LOL

 

Nothing to take back Bill. LOL

[bill]

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Guest malland]

...BTW I agree with Guy I think Leica know what they are doing.

Could have fooled me, given their financial results.

 

—Mitch/Potomac, MD

Flickr: Mitch Alland's Photostream

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Take a look at Canon. There is just not a lot of love out there for many industries. Everyone is hurting.

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[guywalder]

everyone may be hurting, but for once Leica were well ahead of the curve.

Take a look at their last 1/2 year results, their sales dropped well ahead of the general trend.

Maybe Leica know what their customers want, but just arent able to deliver it (M9, R10 for example).

 

Curious to see, in the Q3 results, how R&D expenditure has dropped so much given the 'in development' status of the S2 and, presumbaly, R10.

Curious also to see a reason for the continued financial misery is 'delayed introduction of new products'. Anyone know what they are?

[Guest guy_mancuso]

What is interesting is it has been a long time before a new product, This one always seems to amaze me how long before a new body or system comes out that a company can hang on in between say the M8 and S2 this will be almost 3 years. So yes adding some lenses in there helps but still a long time before new camera's. I know there doing a lot of things with R&D and such but that stuff does not bring in revenue immediately nor does the construction of their move to the new site.

 

If you look more at the disposable companies like Canon and Nikon something new like a body is slated 18 months, not that I agree with that but that gap is much shorter and they can continue to draw revenue. This makes me think there is more money behind Leica than we actually think. Which is great but a couple lenses just does not seem enough in the gap periods. I guess other parts of Leica help maintain it as a whole. Sport Optics i know is really big for them.

[marknorton]

That said, I'm afraid I don't read the whole of Guy's posts because they make my eyes itch.

 

Do my posts make your eyes itch, Bill?

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Hallo,

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