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Brand new M8 - Totally misaligned finder


plasticman

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Just one more update to the story, and then it goes into respite for an unknown number of weeks: the Leica dealer here advised I send the camera directly to Solms rather than back to Ffordes, which I've now done.

 

The countdown begins - I will report back in the (probably great) fullness of time. Don't hold your breath.

 

Thanks everyone for their constructive help - if anyone can suggest a good recipient of constructive criticism at Solms, then I'd gladly like to hear of her/him.

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Not sure what good it will do but here is the email for Stefan Daniel.

stefan.daniel@leica-camera.com

 

Your problem, mine and others, all circle around poor leadership in the whole company. From the top, Dr Kaufmann, on down.

 

Just one more update to the story, and then it goes into respite for an unknown number of weeks: the Leica dealer here advised I send the camera directly to Solms rather than back to Ffordes, which I've now done.

 

The countdown begins - I will report back in the (probably great) fullness of time. Don't hold your breath.

 

Thanks everyone for their constructive help - if anyone can suggest a good recipient of constructive criticism at Solms, then I'd gladly like to hear of her/him.

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Not sure what good it will do but here is the email for Stefan Daniel.

stefan.daniel@leica-camera.com

 

Thanks for the information - I'll try to put together something helpful. I'm sure Herr Daniel doesn't consider one misaligned finder to be earth-shaking news, but cumulatively, I worry about the impact on the company of this constant cycle of mishaps. In contrast, when I had a question for Nikon over the D90 that I bought just before christmas, they were falling over themselves to be helpful.

 

One last thing - as I've said before, Ffordes must be the most helpful store I've ever dealt with. I'll definitely be buying from them again - and I would definitely recommend others do the same.

 

Mani

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Guest volkerm
a camera that is packed within its own box, which is inside a further box, which in turn is wrapped in bubble-wrap and then yet another heavy-duty cardboard box

 

That is how I received my MP on the way back from Solms: the camera box was very well protected by carefull packing with 20+ cm of bubble-wrap all around. Leica might know why.

 

In my camera shipment from ffordes, the camera box was on the outer bottom edge of the big box, so that all the bubble-wrap on top was cosmectics only. The camera did survive, however.

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Hi Graham - I don't for a second think that misalignment can't happen from a drop, but the question then should be reformulated as to whether a camera that is packed within its own box, which is inside a further box, which in turn is wrapped in bubble-wrap and then yet another heavy-duty cardboard box, whether that camera should sustain damage which makes it unusable if that overall package is dropped sometime in transit (between two points that are not geographically remote from each other).

What I find strange is that each of the two M6s I've owned over recent times, and the M7 have never been less than perfectly aligned. At least one of the M6s was probably at least as old as me.

 

In any case, before I send the camera back I'm going to take a quick stroll past the main Leica dealer in town - horizontal alignment shouldn't really be cause for trans-european shipment imho.

 

Well I do agree with you that it's seems pretty unlikely for the camera to get misaligned in transit when packed with sufficient shock absorbing material. I wouldn't however necessarily class the original packaging of the camera as 'shock proof' though, even though the body lays flat within a box, within another box with cardboard buffering from the outside. I've got to think that it would have to receive quite a significant shock deceleration at the wrong angle to put it out of alignment in transit. If the entire box is packed within an impact resistant package then it sounds like a lottery winner.

 

Maybe one of the dealers on the list such as Dave Farkas can attest to how many cameras they've received from the factory with alignment problems. That would be interesting to know as a reference.

 

At the end of the day it's a simple, although inconvenient, item to fix.

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None of this surprises me. I started a thread a couple of weeks ago entitled "At last a pat on the back for Leica service". I spoke too soon and before I discovered that service had scratched the inner lens ring and the front element on my MATE when it went back to Solms with my M8 to have earlier service errors corrected. It looks as if it has been done with a metal tool of some sort.

 

Quality control on new items is also wholly inadequate (assuming it was not transit damage on Mani's M8). I am going to the get together in June at Solms and I will raise this issue again. However, Leica seem to be in total denial about this. When I last went there in April 2008, I queried how a my new 75 Summarit could have been released with the focus so far out that a half blind person could have seen it. The PR guy who was taking me round the factory said someone must have altered it after it left Solms - yea right! They opened the box very carefully leaving the sticky seal intact, altered the lens and equally carefully put it back in the box. Richard Caplan instantly changed the lens for me but this should not be necessary any more than lenses and cameras having to go back for re-service time and again.

 

Wilson

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I know misery loves company ... my Noctilux arrived like that too. It wasn't 'slightly' off - I swear Mr. Magoo must have set it up. A quick trip to DAG and it came back set up perfectly and I know that he didn't have to do a lot to adjust it. That shouldn't EVER happen when you consider what we're paying for this stuff.

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None of this surprises me. I started a thread a couple of weeks ago entitled "At last a pat on the back for Leica service". I spoke too soon... I am going to the get together in June at Solms and I will raise this issue again. However, Leica seem to be in total denial about this.

 

I went back and had a look at that thread and it's depressing reading, along with so many threads and posts on this forum and others. I feel like I'm done with moaning and want to do something proactive, but if your portrayal of Leica's attitude is accurate, then it feels futile to try to convince them to improve.

 

Here's an embarrassing fact - working in advertising I'm surrounded by creatives who, like me, are passionately interested in cameras and photography generally. Not gearheads exactly, but nonetheless often discussing equipment and the possibilities they offer. The embarrassing fact is that I kept my purchase of an M8 a secret - precisely because my well-known adherence to (notoriously unreliable) Leica products is already a matter of faint ridicule, but also because I was worried that some mishap might occur that would make my choice even more laughable. If they knew my brand new camera was going straight back to the factory.... well, I'd never really live it down.

 

Now the significance of this is not my wounded pride. The really important fact is that I'm not out there talking to my friends and showing-off this wonderful camera to make them jealous and hopefully buy their own M8s (these are people with the incomes to be able to do it, after all). No, I'm secretively hiding it instead, and hoping nobody spots the box under my desk...

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Given the bangs and knocks the camera is likely to receive while being used, it doesn't bode well if a bumpy transit to Stockholm sends it out. I still think it's more likely to be a Solms problem. The tightness of the adjustment makes it unlikely to be otherwise.

 

 

Shipping guys throw things. They throw them on the plane, they throw them off the plane, packages get kicked while sitting on the floor.

 

:mad:

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Thanks for the information - I'll try to put together something helpful. I'm sure Herr Daniel doesn't consider one misaligned finder to be earth-shaking news, but cumulatively, I worry about the impact on the company of this constant cycle of mishaps. In contrast, when I had a question for Nikon over the D90 that I bought just before christmas, they were falling over themselves to be helpful.

Mani

 

Just link this thread with your email and I'm sure it will get the proper attention. Leica don't want or need this kind of publicity. Perhaps Leica should start putting a small piece of paper in with every new camera and lens that says, "Inspected by (person's name)." At least that way someone could be held personally accountable.

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Just link this thread with your email and I'm sure it will get the proper attention. Leica don't want or need this kind of publicity. Perhaps Leica should start putting a small piece of paper in with every new camera and lens that says, "Inspected by (person's name)." At least that way someone could be held personally accountable.

 

You know they use to do that. In fact it wasn't that long ago on lenses. I haven't bought a new lens in 1.5 years but this is what came with my chrome 50 Lux.

 

 

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Not sure if I got one of those in the M8 box. I think not.

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You know they use to do that. In fact it wasn't that long ago on lenses. I haven't bought a new lens in 1.5 years but this is what came with my chrome 50 Lux.

 

 

[ATTACH]127845[/ATTACH]

 

Not sure if I got one of those in the M8 box. I think not.

 

I got one with my M8 that actually so far works perfectly :) I'm sorry for the rest of you out there.

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Guest volkerm
Just link this thread with your email and I'm sure it will get the proper attention.

 

That's not fair, really.

 

I agree that Leica should be held responsible for mistakes that happen under their control. Here, it seems just so very unlikely to me that the misalignment happend at Leica. The described viewfinder offset would be very obvious to anyone at Leica QC.

 

I don't try to defend Leica here, but to me, the most likely scenario is that the damage happened during transit from Leica to ffordes, or from ffordes to the customer. Based on the experience with ffordes packing, as described above, I would not be surprised.

I had one case myself (not related to ffordes) where well packed poto equipment (a pretty robust Nikon lens) was damaged in transit, with no obvious signs on the box.

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That's not fair, really.

 

I agree that Leica should be held responsible for mistakes that happen under their control. Here, it seems just so very unlikely to me that the misalignment happend at Leica. The described viewfinder offset would be very obvious to anyone at Leica QC....to me, the most likely scenario is that the damage happened during transit from Leica to ffordes, or from ffordes to the customer..

 

I guess we'll never know - and I'm more than willing to give Leica the benefit of the doubt: the misalignment would indeed have been obvious to anyone - the dealer here saw it instantly, it really was so far out that a glance was enough - so it's hard to believe that it passed a QC test leaving the factory.

 

Now I'm looking forward to getting the camera back. I felt I didn't have enough to say to contact Stefan Daniel, and I have faith that these people know how to run their own company. One misaligned finder isn't the end of the world - a pity, imo, that such a small detail requires transporting thousands of kilometers and several weeks' wait - but let's see in what shape the camera comes back. A few scratches and a broken LCD and you'll be hearing from me again...

:rolleyes:

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With regard to the initialled QC certificates that come with the lenses and the camera bodies I expect Leica does know who QC'd the item whatever scrawl is on the certificate.

 

So it would seem that there is some considerable incentive for the individual QC technician to get it right. A lot of stuff happens in transit with mechanical a human handling.

 

Jeff

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I went back and had a look at that thread and it's depressing reading, along with so many threads and posts on this forum and others. I feel like I'm done with moaning and want to do something proactive, but if your portrayal of Leica's attitude is accurate, then it feels futile to try to convince them to improve.

 

Here's an embarrassing fact - working in advertising I'm surrounded by creatives who, like me, are passionately interested in cameras and photography generally. Not gearheads exactly, but nonetheless often discussing equipment and the possibilities they offer. The embarrassing fact is that I kept my purchase of an M8 a secret - precisely because my well-known adherence to (notoriously unreliable) Leica products is already a matter of faint ridicule, but also because I was worried that some mishap might occur that would make my choice even more laughable. If they knew my brand new camera was going straight back to the factory.... well, I'd never really live it down.

 

Now the significance of this is not my wounded pride. The really important fact is that I'm not out there talking to my friends and showing-off this wonderful camera to make them jealous and hopefully buy their own M8s (these are people with the incomes to be able to do it, after all). No, I'm secretively hiding it instead, and hoping nobody spots the box under my desk...

 

Do you refer to your colleagues or your wife (keeping it at the office)?:D:p

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Guest volkerm
Why do you think that?

 

I have seen cases where Leica QC missed to identify a hidden problem.

But this described problem is so very obvious, that they really can't miss it during final inspection. I would compare it to a new car where they forgot to install the steering wheel and nobody noticed ... not very likely to happen.

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