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Some thoughts on the M8.2 after 2-1/2 weeks

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Guest malland

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I've posted a thread about my thoughts on the M8.2 after two weeks, in which I make two recommendations for inclusion in future versions: an "electronic level" facility as in the Ricoh GRD2 and a matrix metering system. I haven't placed this thread on this forum because it has a good number of pictures illustrating what I'm discussion, and a thread in which I had illustrations for the same purpose here was closed when I added two pictures illustrating another point that I added. Also, I must say that the recent thread that I started here concerning posting to the M8 forum became mean-spirited and unpleasant. Here is the new thread:

 

Some thoughts on the M8.2 after 2-1/2 weeks: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

 

—Mitch/Turks & Caicos

Bangkok Noir©: Book Project - a set on Flickr

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Guest stnami

Not sure if this is the right way of starting a new thread........... not really much of a invitation. But ei! we all have our ways, none of the images really scream m8 but I guess it's early days. Glad you like it

I'll stick with my RD-1 and LSM lenses

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Guest malland

Imants, why do you think the photographs "should scream M8"? To start with, I've been using, mostly, my usual style — although I'm looking at the way the camera may pull into something new.

 

—Mitch/Turks & Caicos

Flickr: Mitch Alland's Photostream

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Guest stnami

I'm not sure if the CV15, the Zeiss 18mm/f4 Distagon are going to work too well, they are pretty high contrast so unless you have to cut through pollution and haze you may end up with too many blown highlights making PP work in the mid tones hard work. I got rid of all my CV stuff except for the 21 which I use to take closeups of the hoons burning truck tyres at dusk.

The m8 is capable of some pretty shmaltzie bnw images with a rendition only found in MF and film at low isos. Best I have ever seen from a digital, not having money to burn 9,000 Australian pesos is way too much for a bnw camera when film can do the job.

I would be taking some pretty spot on images at dawn, midday and dusk of ordinary run of the mill subjects with a variety of compositional elements with the frame set that no post processing will be done. Trying to nail the light and get as much as possible out of the dynamic range of the sensors capabilities.

I did that with a few students with M8s they started getting great results but the lure of top end Canons and Nikons was too much. They also ran out of patience and refused to acknowlede that film had any credability. I think that these days they take pictures of textured surfaces and shapes with their big black bricks, but they are having fun so that's sweet.

PP work can come later when you know where you stand with the camera, then this is only advice and may be disregarded, Enjoy the camera and that's all it is a camera

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Mitch - re. your comment on the lack of matrix metering on the M8 on your blog - for street work I usually use a manual setting + hyperfocal focus - take a reading for how the light is for a space and work with that for and then re-set if you move into an area of different light intensity. If you're shooting from the hip it can work surprisingly well. If you're framing with the finder and want to use A then spotting the right light area, locking and framing can be surprisingly quick - though again, with high ISO in low light I'm often finding that manual gives much the best results...

 

Hope you continue to enjoy... re the GRD2 - I got one some time back, but I keep on returning to the M8 (my current single lens favourite is the 35 cron MkIV - the combination makes the M8 a pocketable camera - good for cold days!)

 

Best

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Guest malland
...I would be taking some pretty spot on images at dawn, midday and dusk of ordinary run of the mill subjects with a variety of compositional elements with the frame set that no post processing will be done. Trying to nail the light and get as much as possible out of the dynamic range of the sensors capabilities...
Imants, thanks. I have to give this some thought. Since I started using digital I've been doing very heavy post-processing and went into the M8 with this mode. Should be interesting to try this other approach.

 

—Mitch/Turks & Caicos

Flickr: Mitch Alland's Photostream

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Guest malland

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Mitch - re. your comment on the lack of matrix metering on the M8 on your blog - for street work I usually use a manual setting + hyperfocal focus - take a reading for how the light is for a space and work with that for and then re-set if you move into an area of different light intensity. If you're shooting from the hip it can work surprisingly well. If you're framing with the finder and want to use A then spotting the right light area, locking and framing can be surprisingly quick - though again, with high ISO in low light I'm often finding that manual gives much the best results....
Chris, I am using zone focus and what you're suggesting on metering is what I've always done with film. My suggestion on matrix metering is that it would make street photography a lot easier and is desrable, especially considering that the dynamic range of the M8 is a lot less than that of B&W film.

 

—Mitch/Turks & Caicos

Bangkok Noir©: Book Project - a set on Flickr

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Mitch, basically you sound disgruntled about something to do with this forum but I am not clear on what it is. Your other thread (linked above) seems to predominantly focus on prices and places to shop.

 

It is not clear to me what you wish to illustrate with the images included. Are you asking a question or maybe answering one. Sorry, but I am just endeavouring to find the reason for your thread. Granted you are having a good time with your new camera, for which I am pleased, but I am perhaps missing something to which we can respond.

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Mitch, I just read your post #8 where you said that the dynamic range of the M8 is less than that of B&W film!

 

Wow! One of us is wrong. I would advocate the exact opposite. Happy to be proven wrong but I believe the opposite of your statement on this. Now I am a great lover of film, especially B&W, and have spent more than 50 years working the stuff, but I can easily squeeze heaps more DR out of the M8 files into a final print than I could ever out of film direct to print. And I don't think think I was/am such a bad printer btw.

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My suggestion on matrix metering is that it would make street photography a lot easier and is desrable, especially considering that the dynamic range of the M8 is a lot less than that of B&W film.

 

I agree 100%. No matter whether the dynamic range is better or worse, a good matrix metering system (like the one offered in the big Nikon SLRs) would be a big win.

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Guest malland
...It is not clear to me what you wish to illustrate with the images included. Are you asking a question or maybe answering one. Sorry, but I am just endeavouring to find the reason for your thread. Granted you are having a good time with your new camera, for which I am pleased, but I am perhaps missing something to which we can respond.
Thanks for reading the other thread Erl. In that therad I was merely giving my reaction so far to the M8 and suggesting that it would be good to have matrix metering and an "electronic spirit level", the way the Ricoh GRD2 has one. The picture illustrate these points.

 

As for being disgruntled, I would have liked to post that thread here but it's been made very clear that pictures in this M8 forum are discouraged, and I don't believe in posting only links to pictures, as I myself don't follow such links. But for those who do follow such links, here are three M8.2 colour pictures that have only a little PP, with a question on Capture One versus Aperture or ARC as a RAW developer for the M8. (Perhaps I should psot that question in a new thread here.).

 

A few M8.2 colour pictures: Leica Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

 

—Mitch/Turks & Caicos

Bangkok Noir©: Book Project - a set on Flickr

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Hi Mitch,

 

I'd suggest going to manual exposure and just reading the light as one does with older Leica Ms. It is easy enough to keep the highlights where you want them and then just let the shadows fall where they may. I've actually found the metering in the M8 to be excellent but I imagine that the way I *use* metering may be different from the ways in which some others use it. For my work, I've never found matrix metering to work any better than the simple system in the Leica.

 

I tend to start a period of shooting in aperture priority for a few frames, watching the histogram for each of them. That gives me my bearings, so to speak, and then I normally move to manual and tweak exposure intuitively. Whatever the dynamic range differences may be between film and the M8, this process is still the same.

 

I'm glad you're somewhere warm now and near water.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

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Guest Luis D

I agree with the poster. Any camera with Snapshot mode seems like it naturally should have matrix metering

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... it's been made very clear that pictures in this M8 forum are discouraged...

 

Yes, I saw that. I was quite enjoying reading your journey of discovery with the M8 and some of the images you were creating with it. It's a shame that this type of post is discouraged.

 

 

I for one would be interested in your workflow with silver EfEx and Viveza, failing that I'd be interested in seeing before and after to see how much you've pushed it. But that would fall into the digital post processing forum if the rules are to be followed to the letter of the law.

 

Mitch, I've always enjoyed your images, gritty and noire. Keep it up!.

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Not saying it couldn't be done, but I think matrix metering would be hard to do with out either the shutter being open and the sensor being on, or some kind of half silvered mirror assembly to divert some of the light onto a metering sensor.

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Not saying it couldn't be done, but I think matrix metering would be hard to do with out either the shutter being open and the sensor being on, or some kind of half silvered mirror assembly to divert some of the light onto a metering sensor.

 

From what I've heard, Nikon and others (Ricoh?) use an extra sensor just for the matrix metering. Yes, this would definitely be an interesting technical challenge, but judging from what Dr. Kaufmann said in his recent LFI interview, I somehow think the M9 might be quite different from the M8 anyway.

 

Now, they'll only have to find the sweet spot where enough people like the new design and/or still view it as a "real" M Leica. (Think M5!)

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I personally wouldn't mind a slightly different M camera "IF" it was RIGHT from first release and took all my current M mount lenses.

 

Although I really like the original M design, but the M8 is already slightly different then M film cameras, moving forward with a more functional design wouldn't bother me one bit. But it might other M users.

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As far as I understand matrix metering changes the exposure plus/minus one stop by analysing the image by certain rules unknown to the photographer. I prefer to do this on my own which is an essential part of the M philosophy. Thus matrix metering is not on my favourite list at all.

 

Regards

Steve

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The automatic and manual exposure controls on the M8 have been perfectly adequate for my street shooting needs. It certainly isn't 'broke' and doesn't need the matrix metering of a P&S camera in capable hands.

 

Mitch, can I respectfully suggest that you give the M8.2 more than 2 weeks before you start doing a full re-design. After three months, I think you may learn to love it as it is. LOL

 

Rolo

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