Jump to content

135mm Lens on M8?


Peter Lea

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I'm thinking of buying a 135mm Tele-Elmar F4 to use on an M8.2. I know several Forum members use either that or the latest F3.4 version. I never liked the 135mm focal length on full frame, but an effective 180mm is quite different ... I would be very grateful for comments on the ease or difficulty of focussing and composing shots. (I should mention that I have the Megaperls 1.15 magnifier, and don't want to lose the 24mm framelines by using a stronger one, or mess about changing them while on the move). Also, I understand it is possible to bring up the 90mm framelines; how is this done, and does it work with the F4 as well as the F3.4 version?

Thank you for your advice.

Peter Lea

Link to post
Share on other sites

1. The 4.0 is an excellent lens The 3.4 marginally better, but I doubt that you would see that in print

2. Focussing Some like to use a magnifier, but others (me for instance) don't It depends whether you have the viewfinder perfectly adapted to your eye by a diopter if needed and if there are no other things like a miniscule astigmatism. The 1.15x will do fine if you are used to that.

3. Framing. If you push the lens lock button and rotate the lens slighly further against the stop you will bring up the 90 mm framelines on both lenses. With some experience that is plenty to get decent framing. It will not affect focussing, nor will it harm the camera or the lens.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Peter,

 

I use the 135 f/4.0 Tele-Elmar on the M8. It is a great lens, and almost as sharp as the current f/3.4 version. In terms of focussing, you'll be more than ok with the 1.15 magnifier. The lens is of the long focus design and focus is achieved fairly easy. Depth of field is fairly shallow, so your focus has to be spot on. I have attached two samples taken with this lens.

 

Andreas

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Peter,

 

I am using the 135mm Tele-Elmar with the 1.15 Megaperls magnifier. I chose the 1.15 magnification for the same reason - the least loss of finder area. The lens/magnifier combination works very well indeed, even though I would prefer a stronger finder magnification. One has to be very careful with focusing, particularly at closer distances. I also like the 180mm equivalent; during my R6 days I just loved the 180mm Apo-Telyt......

 

As to whether to go for the f:4 Tele-Elmar or the f:3.4 Apo-Telyt - they are both fantastic lenses. The Tele-Elmar can be had for between US$200 and US$400 and the Apo I have not seen for less than US$1,200. Is the Apo that much better? Definitely not - unless you have to have the latest and money is no object, I would buy the Tele-Elmar.

 

My M8 is curently in New Jersey for upgrades and to fix some rangefinder issues that plagued it since day one; hopefully when it comes back the rangefinder will work correctly.

 

As to bringing up the 90mm frame - this can be done two ways: you can push in the frame selector lever prior to exposure or, 'over-rotate' the lens when mounting it. The second option will take the lens past its locking spot and engage the 90mm frame. It is safe - even though the lens is not physically locked in, it can only be removed by truning it back through the locked position. Focusing accuracy is not affected, as the focusing cam of the lens still matches the one in the body.

 

Some members have had the mount changed completely, for one that would enage the 90mm frame directly - this can only be done with the 3.4 Apo-Telyt. As I still also use an M6 0.72 and M7 0.85, this would not have been an option for me.

 

All the best,

 

Jan

Link to post
Share on other sites

Though i like the 135-mm and especially the 3.4 Apo-Telyt very much, one should be realistic. Leica would have no reason to tell us that this lens - which is still one of the best they ever made - does not work on the M8 if it did without any problems. Framing is not the main issue as you can get orientation from the rangefinder field and the frames for 90-mm.

 

But focussing is problematic, for the M-rangefinder was never made for a lense of 180mm. The basis for measurement is too small for it. Of course you may achieve excellent results from this lens if you focus on infinity, if you don't use shutter speeds longer than 1/250 sec (this is the minimum without tripod). But on distances between 10 and 20 m focussing exactly becomes very "hit and miss". On ample testing i had some "hits" which show the real potential of this lens; on lots of others i missed. -

 

The new 1.4-magnifier helps but will not be able to use the 135-mm up to its limits - which are very very far. The old goggled 2.8-Elmarit might work as well, though it is cumbersome to work with it and never achieves the same extremely crisp and vivid sharpness the Apo-Telyt became famous for.

 

If somebody gets happy with it with less magnification he might be blessed with the eyes of an eagle. For us mortals the long telephoto lenses and the M-rangefinder are no ideal combination.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Though i like the 135-mm and especially the 3.4 Apo-Telyt very much, one should be realistic. Leica would have no reason to tell us that this lens - which is still one of the best they ever made - does not work on the M8 if it did without any problems. Framing is not the main issue as you can get orientation from the rangefinder field and the frames for 90-mm.

 

But focussing is problematic, for the M-rangefinder was never made for a lense of 180mm. The basis for measurement is too small for it. Of course you may achieve excellent results from this lens if you focus on infinity, if you don't use shutter speeds longer than 1/250 sec (this is the minimum without tripod). But on distances between 10 and 20 m focussing exactly becomes very "hit and miss". On ample testing i had some "hits" which show the real potential of this lens; on lots of others i missed. -

 

The new 1.4-magnifier helps but will not be able to use the 135-mm up to its limits - which are very very far. The old goggled 2.8-Elmarit might work as well, though it is cumbersome to work with it and never achieves the same extremely crisp and vivid sharpness the Apo-Telyt became famous for.

 

If somebody gets happy with it with less magnification he might be blessed by the eyes of an eagle. For us mortals the long telephoto lenses and the M-rangefinder are no ideal combination.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Focussing is no issue at all, even with dynamic subjects. The reason Leica is not encouraging the use of 135 lenses on the M8 is because they dropped the framelines, due to the viewfinder magnification, in favor of the 24.

 

feed-1.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I should not argue with anybody who can focus a 135 mm (i.e. 180mm) lens on the M8 without any problems, for I really like this lens.

 

My test with the Apo-Telyt - using the 1.25-magnifier - went as follwing: I put the camera with lens on a tripod. I looked for a well structured object at about a distance of 18m which was well lit. I opened the lens wide, shutter at 1/750 and focussed on a certain spot in this object and took 10 fotos of this same spot, each photo after new focussing. My results were: 4 times spot on, 6 times missed, where the focus was either one or two centimeter backwards or forwards. My lens has no issues with back- or frontfocus.

 

So when i was not able to focus precisely in the majority of cases under ideal circumstances, i have no great hope that i would have better results under "real" conditions (no tripod, less light, movements). I will again make this test with the new 1.4-magnifier, when i have a day with better light than at the moment. Perhaps i better my results to 5 spot on and 5 missed. Of course i could achieve much better results when i stopped down the lense to about f 1:8. Though than the short shutter times you need for 180mm raise another problem.

 

My assumption that the M-rangefinder is at it's limit at about 135mm is confirmed by all descriptions i know about its measuring basis. 180mm exceeds it. That they offered the Elmarit with goggles was no mistake, but it was a rather unelegant solution. Leica would have had no problems to add the tiny 135-frames inside the 90mm-frames in the M8-viewfinder, or they might have offered them as an option. Their justification for not doing this was that the rangefinder is not able to give an exact image of focus with a lens of such focal length. I think they were right.

 

Please don't misunderstand me: i do not want to keep anybody off using the wonderful 135-lenses on the M8. I often do so, but my exspectations that i would achieve on the M8 what i could on the M3 or the M6 with an 0.85-finder and a real 135 not prolonged to 180mm stay limited.

 

But I appreciate anybody who is able to focus it well on the M8.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, getting a 135 Tele-Elmar for my M8s was a no-brainer. Now I have a Leica digital kit with up to 180 mm range, which is quite remarkable.

No question that focusing is a challenge and, after using this lens, I figured I would get a 1.4x magnifier eyepiece.

I also have an old viewfinder attachment that goes down to 135, so I can frame with that, if needed.

In my focus test shots of a newspaper page, I found the focus to be in front of where the rangefinder says it is, in the closest setting. I have yet to study this in detail, but that's the initial report (using 2 different M8 bodies in a test that involved 4 different lenses).

It will take some getting used to this lens for me to be able to use it regularly for things other than landscape at infinity. For example, I really need to check out this front focus issue. But I am happy to have it and am confident I will be able to produce more-than-acceptable outdoor sports pictures with it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've got the Tele Elmar 135/f4 with detachable head. This version is mountable on a Visoflex device giving you an extra use for this lens.

 

Framing (90 framelines) and focusing (1.25 magnifier) is not very easy but the quality of this lens makes you smile each time.

 

-First shot: test with head of Tele Elmar + Visoflex III (dirty keyboard..)

-Second shot: Tele Elmar at f5.6

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Jaap, the 135mm focuses properly in my hands. I have had both the 3.4 APO and the F4 versions. I like the results from the APO bit better, but the F4 is not bad. The framelines for the 90 are a good start, and there is always the instant replay to be sure. Regards. DR

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to pick up a relatively inexpensive tool for framing, find an old TEWE zoom viewfinder--35mm-200mm--and set it at 180mm for the M8. They turn up now and then for about $75-$150. Not spectacular, but a lot better than nothing.

 

I have had two Tele-Elmars. I loved the idea, but found them really difficult to focus under even the best of circumstances. The results were so unpredictable that I thought the lens itself was out of whack, so I sent it to DAG Camera Repair, but even that didn't help.

 

For me, using the Tele-Elmar was a little like bracketing. For every shot I took, when possible, I would focus according to the rangefinder, then back focus a bit and a bit more, then forward focus a bit and a bit more. Quite often, even after 5 shots, the results were poor at best.

 

I really wish I could have solved the problem--I like a long lens now and then--but I gave up and sold both of mine.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone: This is my first post here and I would like to start with saying thank you to all of you for building such a high quality forum. I have been learning a lot and now I just want to chime in.

 

I have the Tele-Elmar 135/4 and like many of you, I like it very much. A magnified viewfinder definitely helps. Here is a shot ( my first ever attempt at bird photography ) I took with this lens.

 

Phil

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Link to post
Share on other sites

There are lovely images on this thread, but if I may suggest an economical and slightly subversive alternative for a 180mm equivalent: you might also look into using a 90mm Leica lens adapted to the Panasonic G1. I've done a little shooting this way with the Elmar C 90 (f4), and the image quality and almost absurd lightness of the kit make it a no-apologies option, in my opinion. Accurate focus is a breeze: even if you don't use the time-consuming manual-focus magnification feature of the G1, I have found that, at this focal length, the EVF view is large and clear enough for precise focus even in low light.

 

Dan

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone: This is my first post here and I would like to start with saying thank you to all of you for building such a high quality forum. I have been learning a lot and now I just want to chime in.

 

I have the Tele-Elmar 135/4 and like many of you, I like it very much. A magnified viewfinder definitely helps. Here is a shot ( my first ever attempt at bird photography ) I took with this lens.

 

Phil

 

This is a great shot with a difficult lens. Having seen this one, I might consider a 135/F4.

 

Jet

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a marvellous bird shot, as good as I can get on my DSLR.

 

It's clear from the postings that focussing a 135mm can be problematic; hopefully shooting at F5.6 or (if possible) F8 would compensate a bit. I think I will go for the Tele-Elmar F4; if it doesn't work out, I haven't invested very much, and I'm sure the IQ will be very good.

 

I had the F2.8 years ago with my M3, but I found it big, heavy and clumsy, and sold it. One of the main advantage of the Leica system to me, apart from the fact I love using the cameras, is the weight advantage. My Canon 5D, three zooms, adapters, filters, etc, weigh 5.5kg (12lb). Carrying that about all day when you're near retirement age is no fun. My Leica kit with 5 lenses is under 3kg (6.5lb). Enough said.

 

Thanks for all the helpful advice.

 

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...