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Shootist

NJ M8 Service is a joke.

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I won't call NJ service a joke (yet), but FWIW I just called to check on my M8 which was just sent in for upgrade and was told that they wouldn't have the rangefinder masks in for 2 weeks and to call back then to see if the parts have arrived. It would have been nice to have received some sort of communication to that effect when my camera arrived. In fact I heard about the back order situation on this forum and only called Allendale as a result of that. So now an upgrade which I was told would take two weeks when my camera was called in is up to four, and had I not reached out myself I wouldn't have ever known that.

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I had sent my M8 to NJ first week in Nov. Sticky shutter in 'C' mode. Leica promised to have it back in 2-4 weeks . 62 days later I received the camera back. In the process of replacing part of the electronics they managed to short out the camera . A full charged battery drained completely in less than 2 hours . Tested 4 batteries , did the same . Sent NJ a eMail last Monday (12th) , notifying of the problem , sent camera back on 13th (24 hours after I had received it) . I will see how many more months I have to wait.

NJ has not had the decency to reply to my eMail. I hope they add all that repair time on to the back end of the warranty.

 

PeterP

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It is a characteristic of Lithium-Ion batteries to lose power abruptly and unexpectedly. I doubt an accurate warning is possible, unless it were given so early that there would be a lot power left in the battery in 90% of the cases.

 

Come on, Jaap. My Nikon D2X and D3 both give me accurate battery charge readings. Lithium-Ion batteries aren't the only ones that die suddenly at the end of their useful charge, but it's certainly possible to give warning with Li-Ions. The problem seems to be that Leica has neither the inclination nor, possibly, the skills to do that.

 

As I said a long time ago on this forum, "it's a heartbreaker." I really wanted a good digital Leica rangefinder, but now I'm SO glad I didn't buy an M8. The stories on this thread would be funny if they weren't so pathetic. I hope Leica will climb out of this pit, but I'm no longer holding my breath.

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I dont agree with Shootist here that it is wrong of Leica to charge money for replacing a cheaper covering. That he has changed cover is a risk on his hand. Optionally, Leica could return the camera without a cover and Shootist could cover it again with this 50$ cover.

 

Nor do I agree that Leica service is bad. When introducing M8 they warned that having old lenses coded could take a long time - and they mentioned a number of weeks. All my lenses was returned to me far faster than warned.

 

Like almost all M8 users, I have had to send my M8 for fixing a red (or blue) line. They did this within a few weeks. This must have been a service problem of gigantic proportions for a small company like Leica. And most likely, Leica is not to blame, but the sensor producer.

 

I am satisfied with the Leica service. Not the least because the service shop is a part of Leica. Not so with Canon. Their service is 'outsourced'.

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My only complaint so far is that communication should be better. No acknowledgement that the camera was received (other than my shipping tracking number), no informing me of my repair order number to track the order, no email/call to tell me that estimated time would be double the initial estimate (maybe more, that's when the part is expected but not guaranteed to arrive), no way to track progress on the order, and have been told there will be no notification when it gets shipped back to me. Pretty much every step of this could be easily handled by email updates--even if were only 'we got your camera', 'it's going to be delayed', and 'we're done and shipping it back' I would be happy. How hard is that to set up? Certainly someone enters this data into some form for internal use already.

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I really wanted a good digital Leica rangefinder, but now I'm SO glad I didn't buy an M8. The stories on this thread would be funny if they weren't so pathetic. I hope Leica will climb out of this pit, but I'm no longer holding my breath.
I am sorry that your preconceptions lead you to a choice that prevent you from using an M8. It is not 100% reliable, and no-one should expect it to be. But it is a tremendous joy to use one, and moreover it makes phenomenal images.

 

Meanwhile it would help if Leica would improve service in NJ.

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I dropped my M8 (don't ask!), and Leica repaired it under its Passport Warranty for free.

 

I had a Cameraleather covering on it, and when I got the camera back, Leica had replaced the covering with the new M8.2 one without being asked, presumably because it looked closer to the Cameraleather cover than the smoother, more slippery standard M8 one. More importantly, they did this at no charge!

 

(Incidentally, I must've been one of the first to see the new covering outside of Leica, as this was last August!)

 

So, Leica servicing isn't all bad experiences...! At Solms, anyway, where my camera ended up (I'm in the UK)...

 

A detailed service guidance for all repair centers worldwide would help the customers and Leica. Enough infomation could be found on this forum to improve the material they use currently.

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I am sorry that your preconceptions lead you to a choice that prevent you from using an M8. It is not 100% reliable, and no-one should expect it to be. But it is a tremendous joy to use one, and moreover it makes phenomenal images.

 

Meanwhile it would help if Leica would improve service in NJ.

 

Why shouldn't I expect a camera body that I pay $5400, or more for, not to be 100% reliable? I expect that of every other camera body I purchase. And why should service take months and months ? Service on digital cameras is merely (or should be) swapping out modules . What is so arduous and time consuming about that ?

How many cameras would Leica sell if they advertised ,

"Not very reliable, poor service , but takes great pictures . Yours for a mere $6000."

 

PeterP

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I am sorry that your preconceptions lead you to a choice that prevent you from using an M8. It is not 100% reliable, and no-one should expect it to be. But it is a tremendous joy to use one, and moreover it makes phenomenal images.

 

Meanwhile it would help if Leica would improve service in NJ.

 

"Not 100% reliable?" Have you read this thread? Are you joking? I had no "preconceptions" and I came very close to buying an M8. But I had enough sense to wait a bit and read the fora before I took the plunge. Saying that a Nikon D3 is not 100% reliable makes sense because it's had very, very few failures. To say that the M8 is not 100% reliable is like saying that Bernard Madoff was not 100% reliable because once in a while he did the right thing.

 

I love rangefinders and owned and used a variety of Leicas beginning in the 60s. I still hope that Leica will pull itself out of the mud and produce a relable digital. But it's obvious that the M8.2 isn't that camera, and, as I said, I'm no longer holding my breath waiting for that happy day.

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It seems Leica New Jersey works with the "all bets are off' when you send something in.

 

 

2. One January 5th I sent my M8 in for a tuneup after calling and asking the approximate turnaround. Either Colleen or Mary said about 2 weeks was the general rule. Today after not hearing from LeicaNJ regarding the camera, I called Colleen who said it was due to be fixed (looked at?) on February 16th or so. That is a 5 weeks turnaround if it actually happens..

 

 

4. I suggest anyone sending something into Leica call directly and keep track of their slothful ways. They seem to be masters of avoidance and forgetting things.

 

and so it goes.

 

I sent my M8 in for some work (a re-repair of a job they did a year ago for sticky framelines) 2nd week of Dec. I called last week and Colleen said end of Feb. they would fix (look at?) it. That's almost 10 weeks (though I guess they closed down for two weeks over Xmas). I'm now applying for pro service, something I should have done years ago. It's ridiculous. Love the camera though and just picked up a second used one. But yeah, Solms needs to shift some resources over to the US side of things. They should have done this a long time ago.

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when i signed up for the rangefinder mask fix (i won't call it an upgrade even though i have to pay for it) i asked if i could get a black dot to replace the red one and i was told that they won't do that "it's a policy" how stupid. i guess i will just have to have one put on by someone else like i have on my m6's. but i will wait to do that until i get the camera back from nj.

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I guess I'm just lucky that my camera after 1 year and 40,000 exposures later my m8 is still working perfectly and never once needed service (well i did manage to lose that screw in the hotshoe region that does nothing.)

 

HOWEVER, i have had a friend who was unlucky with some sensor issues and sent the camera back twice....both times leica provided a loaner m8 and had the camera back in 2 weeks.

 

Every time i've ever e-mailed Leica they've always responded back within 24 hours (using e-mail) and never once has my experience been bad.

 

So yeah...when I read these threads, and I'm sorry if this angers some folks, but I really call into question the authenticity of the whining.

 

Honestly, my new car has been back to the shop 3 times for a faulty wiring harness causing my speakers to drop out randomly...the first 2 times it went in, the company told me there was nothing wrong with the car until finally the third time the random error popped up for them....never once did they give me a loaner vehicle.

 

My point is that customer services is a rocky road... from time to time, the problems we see pop up frequently don't show up when the object is in for repair.... sometimes things just go slowly and funkily... sometimes someone in an office somewhere is just having an off day and paperwork gets shuffled off into some dark abyss and requires you to call ten thousand times to get it done right. NO COMPANY is perfect, leica included.... but honestly this nonsense about them being retarded is just plain getting old... i have to listen to canon and nikon shooters calling the other a terrible company for this and that every day, I think people just like to complain about something... so go complain about the costs of toilette paper or something, if you want to whine about leica service i suggest you give them a call or write them a letter, these kinds of posts are counterproductive, annoying, and honestly are just plain arrogant in nature.

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I guess I'm just lucky that my camera after 1 year and 40,000 exposures later my m8 is still working perfectly and never once needed service (well i did manage to lose that screw in the hotshoe region that does nothing.)

 

HOWEVER, i have had a friend who was unlucky with some sensor issues and sent the camera back twice....both times leica provided a loaner m8 and had the camera back in 2 weeks.

 

Every time i've ever e-mailed Leica they've always responded back within 24 hours (using e-mail) and never once has my experience been bad.

 

So yeah...when I read these threads, and I'm sorry if this angers some folks, but I really call into question the authenticity of the whining.

 

Honestly, my new car has been back to the shop 3 times for a faulty wiring harness causing my speakers to drop out randomly...the first 2 times it went in, the company told me there was nothing wrong with the car until finally the third time the random error popped up for them....never once did they give me a loaner vehicle.

 

My point is that customer services is a rocky road... from time to time, the problems we see pop up frequently don't show up when the object is in for repair.... sometimes things just go slowly and funkily... sometimes someone in an office somewhere is just having an off day and paperwork gets shuffled off into some dark abyss and requires you to call ten thousand times to get it done right. NO COMPANY is perfect, leica included.... but honestly this nonsense about them being retarded is just plain getting old... i have to listen to canon and nikon shooters calling the other a terrible company for this and that every day, I think people just like to complain about something... so go complain about the costs of toilette paper or something, if you want to whine about leica service i suggest you give them a call or write them a letter, these kinds of posts are counterproductive, annoying, and honestly are just plain arrogant in nature.

 

 

While each of us can only work from our own personal reference point..... you comments are simply baseless. Rather than refuting your conclusions (based on what appears to be 2 M8 s) .....lets get to the purpose and IMHO the benefit/ need for these threads.

 

The forums have been invaluable in early identification of problems with the M8 ..from the early UV/IR issues, the sensor and sudden death syndrome, the rangefinder and lens calibration..green blobs etc. The early discussions always seemed to start with....."we have never heard about this problem before". But after overwhelming evidence is produced, the forums have created positive action on Leica s part .

 

The service issues ..particularly in NJ ....are legend . If you have had no problems ...then you really have very limited experience. Its when the service is difficult, has been performed poorly or suffered from parts shortages....that customer service must earn their reputation. What is irrelevant is comparing service obtained thru Solms with NJ. The depth of service capabilities in Solms (personnel,equipment,parts etc) is not comparable to NJ . The need to go thru NJ to Solms for the most difficult repairs...places a stress on the system ..that is simply not present for those that can go direct.

 

As to putting specific issues in writing to management level personnel verse "airing out" the issues in a public forum........

I have personally submitted issues, supported by facts in writing ...flew at my own expense to NJ and covered them with every level of management . This is effective in getting a specific issue resolved ...but seems to have had limited impact on others experience with customer service.

 

Leica is a small company and was suffering financially ..before the current financial crisis. The M8 is a very complex product and can require far more service to perform at its best. It is unlikely that Leica NJ will ever have enough capacity to deal with the issues of coordination with Solms,technician capacity ,parts shortages or inadequate information systems. Fighting these issues may in fact be a waste of time. Personal attacks on the customer service team , don t seem to add anything .

 

The value of discussing issues in the forum is that they highlight current experience. They can help M8 users make decisions on how best to proceed. For example ...I never send anything to NJ for calibration..even if its under warranty. I use an independent service provider and pay for it . I purchased a 3rd M8 body ..so that I can always have 2 for any assignment,trip or event. When I buy a used lens... I assume it won t focus accurately and factor in the cost of CLA. I expect to send my M8s in for service ... I use them hard....20K per year ..so if the camera has a problem I will usually see it. I don t feel these practices should be required to keep 2 bodies in top form ...but I make the value decision based on realistic expectations.

 

Open and free discussion of problems are beneficial. They keep us appraised of common problems , make us aware of status of their resolution and keep the pressure on Leica to respond. Feel free to disagree with my POV but please don t attack my rights to put them in the forum.

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"Not 100% reliable?" Have you read this thread? Are you joking? I had no "preconceptions" and I came very close to buying an M8. But I had enough sense to wait a bit and read the fora before I took the plunge.

 

Now that is a smart thing to do, basing decisions on the unverifed posts in Internet fora, which are notoriously unreliable and biased...

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Now that is a smart thing to do, basing decisions on the unverifed posts in Internet fora, which are notoriously unreliable and biased...

 

Oh come on Jaap. Really.

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Now that is a smart thing to do, basing decisions on the unverifed posts in Internet fora, which are notoriously unreliable and biased...

 

Are the posts on this thread "unreliable and biased?" People who claim to have a problem are lying? The problems with the M8 are hardly "unverified," nor were they "unverified" then. You do some beautiful work, Jaap, and it seems you've been incredibly lucky with your M8s, but I'd suggest the bias is with those who suggest the M8 is just fine, but perhaps "not 100% reliable." Every indication is that it's probably the least reliable camera ever built.

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Are the posts on this thread "unreliable and biased?" People who claim to have a problem are lying? The problems with the M8 are hardly "unverified," nor were they "unverified" then. You do some beautiful work, Jaap, and it seems you've been incredibly lucky with your M8s, but I'd suggest the bias is with those who suggest the M8 is just fine, but perhaps "not 100% reliable." Every indication is that it's probably the least reliable camera ever built.

 

Honestly I have more problems with Leica NJ sevice then I do with my M8's.

Out of the 9 times I have sent M8's in at least 4 of those time was because after fixing something something else was screwed up. Mostly the focusing adjustments.

I have never had a lock up when using the camera to take images, I have had lock ups when trying to clean the sensor.

Never had the shutter recock run on.

Never had a battery drain fast or the cameras heating up.

Never had SDS.

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Honestly I have more problems with Leica NJ sevice then I do with my M8's.

Out of the 9 times I have sent M8's in at least 4 of those time was because after fixing something something else was screwed up. Mostly the focusing adjustments.

I have never had a lock up when using the camera to take images, I have had lock ups when trying to clean the sensor.

Never had the shutter recock run on.

Never had a battery drain fast or the cameras heating up.

Never had SDS.

 

Having to send your cameras in for maintenance 9 times hardly puts them into the reliable category. The fact that the manufacturer's service outfit is unreliable doesn't make the camera more reliable. A failure is a failure no matter the cause.

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My point is that customer services is a rocky road... from time to time, the problems we see pop up frequently don't show up when the object is in for repair.... sometimes things just go slowly and funkily... sometimes someone in an office somewhere is just having an off day and paperwork gets shuffled off into some dark abyss and requires you to call ten thousand times to get it done right. NO COMPANY is perfect, leica included.... but honestly this nonsense about them being retarded is just plain getting old... i have to listen to canon and nikon shooters calling the other a terrible company for this and that every day, I think people just like to complain about something... so go complain about the costs of toilette paper or something, if you want to whine about leica service i suggest you give them a call or write them a letter, these kinds of posts are counterproductive, annoying, and honestly are just plain arrogant in nature.

 

 

Sorry, but this is one of the more idiotic posts I've ever read.

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