Guest noah_addis Posted January 15, 2009 Share #21 Posted January 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) Charles--Of course it's good to run your own tests, but I haven't found photo mechanic to affect the files at all, nor should it since it's not making any changes to the images themselves. Other than making sure you have the latest firmware, and the UV/IR and lens recognition set as others have mentioned, I can't see why you would be getting such poor results. I often get color that's not 100 percent accurate out of the M8 but it's easily corrected in ACR and after that I find the images look more natural and film-like than the 5d. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Hi Guest noah_addis, Take a look here Ok I am getting a little frustrated!. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sean_reid Posted January 15, 2009 Share #22 Posted January 15, 2009 Well thank you everybody! Sorry there seems to be some question of me being a 'troll' or that somehow I am not the 'real' Charles Ommanney (very lame for a serious forum) but I have found some help in your postings. Is the general feeling that CS3 does not do a good job with processing the M8 files then? Working under deadlines the Capture One software can be a bit slow - I edit and caption in Photo Mechanic and combining that with Photoshop is very easy...Obviously I have set the camera correctly re; UV/IR on etc etc... Charles I edit in Photo Mechanic and then convert in C1 Pro and have not seen the kinds of skin tones you are reporting. I doubt Photo Mechanic has any affect on this at all. How are you setting WB? Can you post a sample with workflow details? Cheers, Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KM-25 Posted January 15, 2009 Share #23 Posted January 15, 2009 Charles, under what kind of lighting conditions is this happening? I had an M8 for awhile and in good light, it did fine, in tungsten, it looked magenta no matter how converted or balanced. And as for the lameness of the forum calling you a troll, I am not surprised at all. This is the internet age where every doctor, dentist and software developer thinks that they are putting pros out of business, so they can't just take a guy on his word. Do your self a favor, cut to the chase and go to Lightstalkers, a photographer's forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMB Posted January 15, 2009 Share #24 Posted January 15, 2009 This is the internet age where every doctor, dentist and software developer thinks that they are putting pros out of business.. Thanks for giving us lawyer a break this time. On a more serious note, I find this discussion without any examples posted somewhat pointless. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MV8 Posted January 15, 2009 Share #25 Posted January 15, 2009 Charles, I had a similar issue with my M8, magenta cast on skintones and especially on black fabric they looked brown, the UV/IR filter fix that. So as Larry said just confirm that it is an IR cutout filter you have on. Best, Manny Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photon42 Posted January 15, 2009 Share #26 Posted January 15, 2009 Well thank you everybody! Sorry there seems to be some question of me being a 'troll' or that somehow I am not the 'real' Charles Ommanney (very lame for a serious forum) but I have found some help in your postings. Is the general feeling that CS3 does not do a good job with processing the M8 files then? Working under deadlines the Capture One software can be a bit slow - I edit and caption in Photo Mechanic and combining that with Photoshop is very easy...Obviously I have set the camera correctly re; UV/IR on etc etc... Charles Using the camera standard profile gives better colors to my eye: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Regards Ivo Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Regards Ivo ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/74206-ok-i-am-getting-a-little-frustrated/?do=findComment&comment=779199'>More sharing options...
plasticman Posted January 15, 2009 Share #27 Posted January 15, 2009 Advertisement (gone after registration) On a more serious note, I find this discussion without any examples posted somewhat pointless. I brought up the issue by starting this thread, but even though a few people tried to help with some tips, I don't feel the problem has been really addressed. One thing that really shocked me was that without IR filters skintones are wildly wrong, especially in tungsten light - so much so that I can't understand how the entire issue was missed by so many people before release. I really feel we should be more honest about these issues and not just attack or ridicule people that bring them up. People out there are spending enormous sums of money on cameras - sometimes based on statements that are not entirely accurate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest noah_addis Posted January 15, 2009 Share #28 Posted January 15, 2009 Do your self a favor, cut to the chase and go to Lightstalkers, a photographer's forum. Oh yeah. Good luck posting about the M8 on LS! All you'll get are scarf comments... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted January 15, 2009 Share #29 Posted January 15, 2009 Charles Getting the correct camera profile seems to make more difference with the M8 than other cameras I've used. For one, the initial standard profiles created when it came out were not tuned to having an IR filter on the lens. The problem you are having won't be fixed with "IR On", (it was anyway) as this just effects cyan vignetting that can occur in wider lenses, not the overall color cast. Blocking the IR does that, along with a good camera profile in whatever converter you use. I am very happy with Raw Developer, a Mac only program. If you were to try it, I can tell you the profile I find the most consistent, supplied by them. (Very responsive company). It's a very quick program, I often simply convert with it with no adjustments, then work with the JPG, unless some WB correction is needed. I'm coming to DC on the 20th just to take the day in, with my 2 M8s......do you need an assistant to help process your files or anything along those lines? ;>) best....Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivek Iyer Posted January 15, 2009 Share #30 Posted January 15, 2009 People out there are spending enormous sums of money on cameras - sometimes based on statements that are not entirely accurate. I will make an accurate statement- if anyone is looking for an UV camera, the M8/8.2 can't be beat. The best there is. There, an accurate and positive recommendation for the M8/8.2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ommanney Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share #31 Posted January 15, 2009 Very kind of you Peter - Thank you. How long are you going to be in DC? That day I am completely overwhelmed with my schedule (and we have two editors down from NY to help out with processing) but would love to meet and chat if your in town for a couple of days?? Best, Charles Ommanney Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted January 16, 2009 Share #32 Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks Charles. Unfortunately I can just squeeze the day, I'm leaving Penn Station 6am, and will be back in NY 11pm. I suspect I won't get too far from Union Station, hoping there will be some big screens to watch near the station. I do get to DC periodically to see family, so please let me take a raincheck! best....Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted January 16, 2009 Share #33 Posted January 16, 2009 Charles: I just did a little test with one of my M8 files and ACR. When Camera RAW opens, you can select a camera profile by clicking on the Camera icon. I had the choice of Adobe Standard, ACR 4.4, ACR 3.6, Camera standard. In my case, the skin tones were best in this order: ACR 4.4 Best ACR 3.6 ACR Standard - Bad Camera Standard - Worse Robert Rob That is exactly the problem.I have had with LR2 (uses the same CameraRaw 5.2) ....4.4 seems the best. Awhile back someone recommended making a camera adjustment of red hue + 2 and red saturation -4 ....This seems to provide reasonable skin tones. Roger Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 16, 2009 Share #34 Posted January 16, 2009 Charles, I was just in the doctor's office and saw your fantastic picture of Michelle Obama on the cover of Newsweek. Nice film look (was it film?). Many of us have struggled with skin tones with the M8 except for a few know-it-alls who never seem to have any problems whatsoever with the M8 (they don't make a living with their photography - go figure) and come down on anyone in this forum that does. It's especially bad with fair skin and under certain lighting. I would play with the suggestions above. You may need to give the camera calibration a go in LR and then set a profile aside for skin tones. Best of luck - it really is a great camera otherwise, just finicky. Take care, Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ommanney Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share #35 Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks for your kind words Charles. (picture was taken with 5D and 85mm 1.2 at 1.2. Converted to platinum print in PS). Well I guess I will have to play around a bit.......I was hoping to be able to shoot color with the M8 but maybe it will end up being my Tri-X body again..... Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted January 16, 2009 Share #36 Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks for your kind words Charles. (picture was taken with 5D and 85mm 1.2 at 1.2. Converted to platinum print in PS).Well I guess I will have to play around a bit.......I was hoping to be able to shoot color with the M8 but maybe it will end up being my Tri-X body again..... Charles There's no reason you shouldn't be able to shoot color with it. I'd keep experimenting. Cheers, Sean Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arif Posted January 16, 2009 Share #37 Posted January 16, 2009 Charles: You also need to shoot DNG to get the best results. You should test to make sure Photo Mechanic is not affecting the color. Perhaps try a couple shots on different cards but do not ingest or edit one of them with PhotoMechanic and then compare to the shot on a card not uploaded or edited via Photo Mechanic to a shot edited in Photo Mechanic. Make sure you have the latest firmware on the camera and the latest version of Adobe Camera RAW for CS3. I think it is 4.6. Once you get the latest Camera RAW, you can fine tune the camera profile to help with the reds. Robert I may be wrong but I thought that Photomechanic does not work directly with DNG files since it basically displays the JPEG files. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted January 16, 2009 Share #38 Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks for your kind words Charles. (picture was taken with 5D and 85mm 1.2 at 1.2. Converted to platinum print in PS).Well I guess I will have to play around a bit.......I was hoping to be able to shoot color with the M8 but maybe it will end up being my Tri-X body again..... Charles Here, check out this gallery, shot in Istanbul over a week this last summer and processed in LR. Site Title I actually love the colors it gives and have done very little b&w with it which I thought I would. But yeah, you need to play a bit to get around the caucasian skin tone. Best, Charles Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted January 16, 2009 Share #39 Posted January 16, 2009 Here are some sample processed using various profiles and one using C1-4. All settings other than profiles were left at default. Personally, I was never too happy with the skin tones. There is something about them that never looked right to my eyes. Always too much red-magenta or splotches of yellowish areas. The model is fair skinned shot at ISO 320 at 1/60th second on an M8. If someone wants I will post up the original DNG and they can take a whack at it. The file names contain the profiles. 1. ACR 3.6 2. ACR 4.4 3. Adobe Standard 4. Camera Standard 5. Sandy's Preset for skin tones 6. Capture One 4 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/74206-ok-i-am-getting-a-little-frustrated/?do=findComment&comment=779510'>More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted January 16, 2009 Share #40 Posted January 16, 2009 Here, check out this gallery, shot in Istanbul over a week this last summer and processed in LR. Site Title I actually love the colors it gives and have done very little b&w with it which I thought I would. But yeah, you need to play a bit to get around the caucasian skin tone. Best, Charles Charles--those are some of the best shots I've seen skin-tone-wise coming out of Lightroom. Thankis for posting those. It goes to show that it's more about the person processing, most of the time, than the software itself! Having said that, I still think ACR / LR is seriously messed up on the magenta side for M8 and DMR DNG files and skin. It doesn't seem to matter how I profile or what new style Adobe profile I use, I can't get useable and repeatable skin tones there; they're always too magenta. OTH, C1, especially V4.5 is much better IMO. I will also say that the M8 for skin tones is particular about three things; this may be obvious but we're talking subtleties here: 1) exposure: it likes to be on the lighter side for skin; this makes it a bit more difficult camera to work with unless your post process gets you there. OTH, you don't get the over cyan tones of Nikon or the all-too-RED Canon sunburn either. All digicams go a little south on skin when underexposed, IMO. 2) white balance: a colorimetrically neutral white balance doesn't do so well for skin--IR filter or not. 3) Colour profile--particularly when not using IR filters. C1 still has the widest range of these and the best for the M8, IMO. It may just be I'm used to C1, but I don't think so...V4.6 is also very quick to work with (much faster than previous Pro 4.x versions--so it's worth a try). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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