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pat hattori

new upgrade prices

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What has happened?

Usually at least a few Leica fans pipe up to emphasize that it's a question of honour to help the company when they adjust prizes.

 

Ok, to get back to reality. The last financial numbers signalized that M8.2 sales must be very low. I think Leica is in deep shit, really deep shit. They have to do everything to sell more M8.2 cameras. They don't want to stop the upgrade programe officially. So they might have choosen the second worst solution and priced it prohibitive. After everything have calmed down again a good percentage of former potential upgrade customers will not be able to withstand the M8.2 and buy it.

 

... or won't. I agree with your analysis re Leica's financial difficulties but, to be honest, this increasingly starts to look like a scam... This price hike seems like a desperate attempt to get some revenues - either through the upgrade or, perhaps, by hoping that their current (unbelievably loyal) customer base will decide that the M8.2 is now better value than M8u, buy it, sell their M8 on eBay, so that the new owners of a used M8 will start buying lenses from Leica... Sounds too good to be true these days.

Perhaps I'm too pessimistic but I don't see how, in the current economy, the S2 and the R10 (next year?) are going to keep them out of trouble, particularly if they insist on pissing off their current M customers...

 

I, for one, was going to have my M8 upgraded AND buy a second M8.2 body as soon as my dealer would receive the 24/1.4 that I had pre-ordered (hopefully sometime in Feb next year).

Now, I found the 50% price increase so outrageous that (a) I won't get the upgrade, (

I cancelled the order for the lens and the M8.2 today and © promised to myself that I will not buy a new M camera (or lens) until they come up with a better sensor (if they ever do).

At the end of the day, I'm realising that my investment in the M system is basically a bunch of Leica and CV lenses and that, rather than counting on Leica to "protect my investment" I'd rather do it myself by buying a couple of film M6's on eBay (about the cost of the upgrade) and enjoy the glass and the rangefinder experience for the next couple of decades...

 

Sorry, but I had to let some steam off...

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Sorry, but I had to let some steam off...

 

Your attitude is totally understandable, Leica's marketing is so inconsistent, they just seem to be making short term decisions as and when.

 

Customers just don't know where it is all leading and get pretty upset about it.

 

Missing the upgrade or the M8.2 is not really that bad, better to wait a year or two for an M9.

 

Jeff

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...........At the end of the day, I'm realising that my investment in the M system is basically a bunch of Leica and CV lenses and that, rather than counting on Leica to "protect my investment" I'd rather do it myself by buying a couple of film M6's on eBay (about the cost of the upgrade) and enjoy the glass and the range finder experience for the next couple of decades.......

That's also my situation and feeling, in-fact I almost bid on a eBay M2 last night. With the M8s soon going out of warranty I'm concerned that the next move by Leica will be to increase out of warranty service charges to the extent that they will make the purchase of a new M8.2 a more feasible option.

 

Bob.

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That's also my situation and feeling, in-fact I almost bid on a eBay M2 last night. With the M8s soon going out of warranty I'm concerned that the next move by Leica will be to increase out of warranty service charges to the extent that they will make the purchase of a new M8.2 a more feasible option.

 

Bob.

 

... thereby creating the throwaway, disposable Leica. I think they need to seriously reconsider the morality of charging €2000 to fix problems (quiet shutter, accurate framelines, durable LCD glass) which users might reasonably have expected from the outset. My Nikon D3 - barely more than the upgrade charge - may be a noisy beast but it does do 9 - 11 fps, has accurate framing and a tough LCD screen which is unmarked after 20000 exposures.

 

To put it bluntly, Leica are taking the piss and we badly need some competition to show them the way.

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Your attitude is totally understandable, Leica's marketing is so inconsistent, they just seem to be making short term decisions as and when.

 

Customers just don't know where it is all leading and get pretty upset about it.

 

Missing the upgrade or the M8.2 is not really that bad, better to wait a year or two for an M9.

 

Jeff

 

The worst thing is that, in my particular case, this "marketing decision" has led them to lose about 12 €k in extra revenues - ie roughly 15 times the additional amount that they are trying to extract from the upgrade price increase.

 

I don't mean by this that I'm a representative Leica customer, nor that this is going to radically change Leica's financials, but I'm probably not the only one reacting this way and, these days, every penny counts...

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...

 

To put it bluntly, Leica are taking the piss and we badly need some competition to show them the way.

 

this statement is spot on.....I feel Leica re on the edge of really losing it, it being their customer loyalty and their respect

andy

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Acting so logically as to rise the price of something announced this year by 50% after it started, I think they don't care about customer confidence and have given up the S2 project for some time now. I still have 2 M6s that work for over 2 decades. Let's see about my M8s. I had my two shutter updates scheduled for December and put them on hold weeks before they were due, in order to avoid stress for the service department. It looked like the right decision for me to wait and see how the new wide angles really are and then spend.

Guys: did nobody in Solms wonder why they were the first for a very long time in the cam world ready to tinker with gear already sold?

 

They should either update having had calculated the costs beforehand. Since the word is, that there are consultants going in and out constantly, it would have been up to the usual standard of most companies (outside of Detroit).

 

And wait with a new model until they could present it with a new chip inside.

 

Or present the new wonder-cam as M9, with a black dot and the shutter as expected, to begin with years ago. Because at digital they were novices, not at shutters.

 

I'm sorry, but this is the announcement, that more than one department can't lift the S2 project.

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The worst thing is that, in my particular case, this "marketing decision" has led them to lose about 12 €k in extra revenues - ie roughly 15 times the additional amount that they are trying to extract from the upgrade price increase.

 

I don't mean by this that I'm a representative Leica customer, nor that this is going to radically change Leica's financials, but I'm probably not the only one reacting this way and, these days, every penny counts...

 

The problem you might have is holding yourself to this, especially if Leica, finding that sales volumes are not what they hoped for, start the rebates and special offers game again.

 

After the fiasco over the perpetual upgrade programme that wasn't I vowed not to buy anymore Leica M but just caved in and bought a new lens before the UK price increases.

 

Jeff

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The problem you might have is holding yourself to this, especially if Leica, finding that sales volumes are not what they hoped for, start the rebates and special offers game again.

 

After the fiasco over the perpetual upgrade programme that wasn't I vowed not to buy anymore Leica M but just caved in and bought a new lens before the UK price increases.

 

Jeff

 

Point taken Jeff - but it's become a matter of principle, as far as I'm concerned.

OK, I may cave in too if the order of magnitude of the rebates is the same as the price increases they're trying to stuff down our throat. A 24/1.4 at 50%? I'd buy that!

And then, there's always the used market to satisfy one's lens lust...

Now off to eBay to check out those M6 prices...

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Add me to the very long list of those really angry about this. Like Mark, I wanted to get the full upgrade, and have been waiting for my job situation to calm down a bit, and for the waiting list to shorten a bit, to send it in, but with these new prices, I am not going to do it, and I am both angry and disappointed with this change.

 

To me, there is a certain amount of honour in setting prices and sticking to them. I could understand it if the American or British prices went up, given that those currencies have fallen so dramatically against the Euro, but that the American prices have stayed the same but the Euro prices have increased massively is just beyond comprehension. It feels like an insult. Add to this that we have been complaining about the shutter noise and frameline inaccuracy since the cameras have been released, and it just pushes me over the edge. Leica ought to do it at cost, since it amounts to a mistake.

 

For a bit more than the price of the upgrade, one could buy a Sony A900. Food for thought.

 

I was also considering the 21 Lux, if I can sell my WATE at a decent price (never liked the workflow, do like the lens), but now I am seriously wondering if I will stay with the system in the long run. Something is just going wrong here. I will wait for the M9 and the next few Leica financial statements before deciding whether to put that much more money into the system.

 

I was also considering the S2 system, wondering if the high initial cost might be offset by the enjoyment of a dual M/S system, for portability and ultimate quality, but now I am afraid of landing in a situation where a planned lens purchase is made infeasible by a 2000 Euro price hike.

 

I always felt as if I could understand even the unpopular decisions made at Leica, but this one just leaves me baffled.

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Okay, I was initially told I would be able to do my upgrade in Dec. Now I'm told it might be March. Problem is I need Leica to re-repair something they didn't get fixed right the first time around (sticky framelines) so I need to send the camera back for god knows how long and then send it back again for the upgrade! At this point it's probably a no go for me as I'm having my first baby in Feb. and would like to have the camera around.

 

Charles, congratulations! I just had a baby daughter in September, and it has been great. A bit less sleep, but when she smiles all is forgotten. The M8 has given me some great pictures of her, and everyone compliments me on them (and her). I just wished it was full frame and had a better ISO 640 (or 800, really).

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Charles, congratulations! I just had a baby daughter in September, and it has been great. A bit less sleep, but when she smiles all is forgotten. The M8 has given me some great pictures of her, and everyone compliments me on them (and her). I just wished it was full frame and had a better ISO 640 (or 800, really).

 

Thanks Carsten. Congrats to you. I have a feeling that I will be shooting a lot of b&w film as well. I picked up a Hexar AF and a Contax T2, both mint for next to nothing. I wish Leica or somebody else made a digital camera like either of these (or a hybrid). I think not only is Leica missing the boat on their M8 decisions, but also should have made a unique semi-compact fixed lens digital p&s a long time ago. They would have done a lot better with that than trying to compete in the MF world.

 

Anyway, I'm thinking that the upgrade cost is probably going into a savings fund instead. Time to just use what I have and stop this rat race. Of course if the price on the D700 keeps dropping like it has....

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Guest stnami

They know that the Leica fondlers will pay to keep the company viable and a ongoing concern. No more Leicas... that would be a fatal blow to the ego to many here

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Well, congratulations to Carsten on his new baby daughter, a sister for Jana.

 

I swore I was not going to invest any more money in Leica because of their broken promises but then came the new big three lenses and, believe it or not, not 12 hours before I discovered the increased upgrade prices, I pressed the big green button to buy them by paying a non-refundable deposit to beat the forthcoming price rises. What a fool! I'd come to terms with Leica not providing the delayed shutter wind function on upgraded cameras and then they pull this stunt!

 

I'd really like Stefan Daniel to come on to this forum and explain why. 50%, not 40% or 60%, just an arbitrary increase to stuff the people they should be looking after, those who, time and again, forgive Leica for their hopeless marketing, their weird communications and their sub-standard products in the hope that, this time, it might just be different.

 

Wrong again.

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... those who, time and again, forgive Leica for their hopeless marketing, their weird communications and their sub-standard products in the hope that, this time, it might just be different.

 

Wrong again.

 

Wow, that was tough tobacco. You might have forgotten their unrelieable and slow fulfillment processes.

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Wow, that was tough tobacco. You might have forgotten their unrelieable and slow fulfillment processes.

 

Yes, I had forgotten. How about...

 

"...those who, time and again, forgive Leica for their hopeless marketing, their weird communications and their sub-standard products and customer service in the hope that, this time, it might just be different."

 

I'm quite annoyed, actually.

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It seems that I am known as a staunch Leica defender (can't imagine why

) but this one is incomprehensible to me as well. And not a word like a Newsletter announcing, let alone explaining it. I just had the upgrade done a week ago, but at this price - forget it. And it would not have made me buy an M8-2 either.

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