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pat hattori

new upgrade prices

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Within the Leica site there are two different telephone numbers for Leica:

 

Customer Support +49 (0) 6442 208 189

 

M8 Upgrade Service +49 (0) 6442 208 165

 

Similarly there are several email addresses:

 

cs@leica-camera.com

 

customer.service@leica-camera.com

 

M8.Support@leica-camera.com

 

Which of these is current and correct for the upgrade service?

 

Thanks, Bob.

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Well I think the phone number is fairly obvious, M8 Upgrade Service.

As for the email take your pick or send the same email to all of them noting that you have done that so you may get prompt service.

I really think the email route is a waist of time. Leica in general is still in the stone age.

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Some of the comments in this thread ("they should fix their mistakes at cost" or "they need to establish a global customer council") I can really only laugh about. After all, Leica is just a company trying to sell products. Does the maker of your car have a global customer council? When was the last time your TV set was "fixed at cost" because of design decisions you didn't like? Do you have the same love/hate relationship to the company that built your fridge? Do you think they owe you something 'cause you've bought the same brand of fridge for years? Hmm...

 

When did the manufacturer of your car or TV set last raise prices by 50% without your shrugging that off as idiocy or harakiri and turning around to buy a different brand? The point is, the people who get angry on this forum are those who would like to go on using Leica equipment but get kicked in their teeth every time the Leica marketing people come up with yet another silly outrage - promises they don't keep, products that fail, prices that are outrageous if not obscene and that are topped by 50% increases just when the economy goes down. If you don't happen to be a masochist it becomes exceedingly difficult not to mistrust this company with everything they do.

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Scene: A small camera factory in Hesse, Germany. Stefan Daniel enters Andreas Kaufmann's office.

 

{snipped}

 

LOL!!

 

 

I have no idea why they'd raise the price of a fledgling upgrade program by 50% unless they want to kill it.

 

Why they'd want to do that I can't imagine.

 

Having said that, if there was a FF M9 in the pipes, with different kinds of upgrades, then I could see stopping these now. A real announce, though, would be nice.

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:D

 

GAS ?= Great Alpha Sony

 

Ummm, Sony? Wasn't that the company that gave me those beautiful surrealistic pink shots on my Digilux2?

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...Some of the comments in this thread ("they should fix their mistakes at cost" or "they need to establish a global customer council") I can really only laugh about. After all, Leica is just a company trying to sell products. Does the maker of your car have a global customer council? When was the last time your TV set was "fixed at cost" because of design decisions you didn't like? Do you have the same love/hate relationship to the company that built your fridge? Do you think they owe you something 'cause you've bought the same brand of fridge for years? Hmm...

 

Great. Sit there and laugh all night. At least some of us are doing a little brainstorming and trying to get Leica to get into the 21st century when it comes to their inept, Byzantine business practices. And yes, car companies, like most consumer product manufacturers, use focus groups everyday to effectively understand their customer base and manage their businesses. Why not Leica? Please don't tell me they are too small to afford it. I've run focus groups before and the cost was minimal, while the results were invaluable.

 

When my Toyota transmission failed a few weeks after the warranty expired, they voluntarily repaired it without question and at no cost to me. Maybe they knew there were inherent design issues with it (sound familiar?), maybe not. But they stood behind it and did what they felt was right, and they didn't piddle around. And guess what, years later I have bought several Toyotas. Why expect anything less from Leica? These are the sorts of things progressive businesses do to grow and prosper, rather than contract and die. If I make a major long-term personal investment in a firm's products, I expect to be treated fairly. If not, I will walk. I'm not walking yet, but let's say I'm putting my shoes on, so to speak.

 

Those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

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Bad example. Leica still fixes Digilux2 sensors under warrantee, which expired several years ago.(see post 226)

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Ummm, Sony? Wasn't that the company that gave me those beautiful surrealistic pink shots on my Digilux2?

 

Digilux 2, wasn't that the type of real Leica compact camera that many are asking for again?

 

I don't know the abbreviation GAS. Will you tell me what's the meaning?

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And yes, car companies, like most consumer product manufacturers, use focus groups everyday to effectively understand their customer base and manage their businesses.

 

Like, say, GM, Ford, and Chrysler?

 

But, seriously, focus group testing and a "global customer council" are two totally different things. What I see here is that people think they are entitled to run the company because they like it and bought two bodies and a couple of lenses. So, you are "doing a little brainstorming and trying to get Leica to get into the 21st century"? And you expect Leica to listen to you because of what exactly? Do I qualify as a consultant if I've made enough postings to this forum or does membership in the council depend on the Leica equipment I've bought over the years? Now, that sounds Byzantine to me.

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Clearly no one has any right or ability to change how Leica makes decisions. However! When the staunchest Leica supporters around here all get up in arms about the same issue, I tend to think that Leica has gone too far. They do read this forum, btw.

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Like, say, GM, Ford, and Chrysler?

 

But, seriously, focus group testing and a "global customer council" are two totally different things. What I see here is that people think they are entitled to run the company because they like it and bought two bodies and a couple of lenses. So, you are "doing a little brainstorming and trying to get Leica to get into the 21st century"? And you expect Leica to listen to you because of what exactly? Do I qualify as a consultant if I've made enough postings to this forum or does membership in the council depend on the Leica equipment I've bought over the years? Now, that sounds Byzantine to me.

 

OK, OK. So I mentioned car companies. Make fun of GM, Ford, and Chrysler all you want. Collecting information and processing it are two different matters, and I think you'd tend to agree that Honda, Toyota, BMW, Apple, Epson, and so many others are the sorts of companies that really understand what their customers want and deliver on that knowledge.

 

I like Leica. I really do. I like the good things about the M8. I've been able to make most of the best photographs of my career with Leica cameras and lenses. But in many areas over the past few years, my expectations (and judging from this thread alone, those of a few dozen other customers) of Leica have gone unmet due to poor decisions and an indifferent attitude towards fulfilling customers' high expectations. I'm not an employee or shareholder or board member--so at least legally, of course I'm not entitled to anything when it comes to Leica. That is obvious. But each of us are entitled to an opinion or two. I have too much invested in Leica cameras and lenses not to care or to be satisfied with all of the mistakes of the past couple of years. Leica has been like a fish floundering around on a dock for the past few years. I'm unwilling to sit back, be passive, and watch the fish thrash around and suffer.

 

Leica can listen or not. Their choice. But a company that has shown so much resistance to a consistent, improved marketing communications program, time and time again, might just learn a thing or two if it treated customers like assets rather than a nuisance. If Leica would prefer to be Byzantine in its approach to so many things, so bet it. But it may lead them to the ash heap of formerly great camera manufacturers who missed opportunities and lost touch of reality, ending up as dinosaurs.

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Boy this has been a long thread and tough to read as it keeps growing faster than I can read it.

 

Having said that, and having been blasted many times for saying some of the same things the blasters are saying now, I think the real reason for the strong reaction here is based on something a little deeper.

 

I sold my M8 last summer because I came to the conclusion that Leica is lost in the digital world. No disrespect meant to our German cousins but Germany has not been in the forefront of the digital age and is not known for their digital/electronics prowess. I own or have owned numerous German vehicles that I really love, Mercedes, Porsche and BMW and when it comes to mechanical items they are par excellence. But the electronics in every vehicle are way behind the Japanese or Americans.

 

The electronic problems in the camera and sadly quite a few mechanical ones too and Leica's inability to respond quickly convinced me that they are not likely to ever catch up. The result of the attempted catch-up effort has materialized in their lenses such that I have seen far too many QA problems showing in their lenses which might not have ever happened if they had stayed focused on lens manufacture. My concern was the survivability of Leica given their choice to build the S2 rather than a CL.

 

I think the rage reflected in this thread is because even the loyal Leica fans realize that such a move reflects further desperation by Leica and the underlying fear that their investment may be worth zero should Leica fail. Who would buy an M8 or M8.2 if Leica went under? How and where could you get the camera repaired? How much would that warranty you just paid for in an upgrade be worth then? With the camera's poor reputation for reliability and only one place to get repairs only collectors would be willing to buy them. I have noticed that our Leica dealers in Orange County CA are not stocking any inventory when they used to keep a few in stock. Sure they will special order one for you if you want to pay for it but they won't risk their own money.

 

The effects of this economy are not over by a long shot and it will be hitting Europe even harder than the US and as that happens (Europe tends to lag the US) things will get worse for Leica. They had a real market for the CL and possibly the R10, they chose to go for the S2. In two years since the M8 they should have had a new camera ready to go to market...they didn't! That spells incompetence in electronic engineering to me. I fear that those that have held on the their M8s are now stuck and should enjoy them while they can, hope they don't have a shutter or other electronic failure and be prepared to find another use for their M lenses. The other hit I predict is that without an M9 the lenses will suddenly start dropping in price to below pre M8 prices. Those paying $3K, $5,K and $9K for lenses will find no takers when they go to sell. Someone buying a Panasonic G1 or the Olympus equivalent for under $1K will not want to pay 3 to 9 times the price for the lenses but will look to VC and Zeiss for lenses.

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I'm a little late coming to these new upgrade prices. I am simply stunned. These new prices settle the question for me, NO CAN DO!

 

Upgrade-options/Prices in €

Shutter/Sapphire glass/Bright line frames 2000,- EUR

Shutter/Sapphire glass 1700,- EUR

Shutter/Bright line frames 1500,- EUR

Sapphire glass/Bright line frames 1450,- EUR

Bright line frames 1000,- EUR

Shutter 1200,- EUR

Sapphire glass 1150,- EUR

 

What are you folks at Leica thinking or not thinking?

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{snipped}I think the rage reflected in this thread is because even the loyal Leica fans realize that such a move reflects further desperation by Leica and the underlying fear that their investment may be worth zero should Leica fail. Who would buy an M8 or M8.2 if Leica went under? How and where could you get the camera repaired? How much would that warranty you just paid for in an upgrade be worth then? With the camera's poor reputation for reliability and only one place to get repairs only collectors would be willing to buy them.{snipped}

 

John, really man.

 

It's one thing to think the upgrades are over-priced, but it's a helluva jump to then conclude that Leica is going under and that a perfectly good M8 would then be literally worthless!

 

Talk about fostering fear, uncertainty and doubt! We all know you didn't like your M8 for whatever reasons, but this "I told you so" stuff from you is a bit much, especially since you don't have an M8 to upgrade anyway! There are all kinds of reasons Leica might raise the price for the upgrades, including not wanting to actually do any...

 

Heck, Canon and Nikon don't do "upgrades" at any price, though of course you can always buy another body...

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John, really man.

 

It's one thing to think the upgrades are over-priced, but it's a helluva jump to then conclude that Leica is going under and that a perfectly good M8 would then be literally worthless!

 

I don't think his reasoning is completely unfounded, although I'm not fearing that my "investment" will drop in worth.

I got children, so anything can happen anytime to my equipment

.

 

But the current economc situation (and the worst is yet to come) plus Leica's very special position in the camera market make me worry about the little camera manufacturer in my Vaterland.

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I've just emailed Solms to make a reservation for two of my M8s and, assuming they do it at the old price, it's still about the cost of a new Nikon D3...

 

Seems clear that if you are at all minded to have your camera upgraded, you should do it sooner rather than later.

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