Theodor Heinrichsohn Posted December 17, 2008 Share #121 Posted December 17, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) When I read about the sentiments of staunch Leica defenders (jaapv, carstenw and the backsliding (!) mark), I must add that I feel just like them. As a life-long Leica fan who has accumulated bodies Leica II, IIIg, M3, M4, M5 (3 bodies), M6, M7 and M8 (2 bodies) + and assortment of over 100 lenses including the 15/8 Hologon up to the 560 Tele, and who has in the course of time produced a collection of several 10-thousand slides from many countries in the world, I was much tempted to upgrade at least one M8 and more or less ordered the 2 new f 1.4 wide angle lenses. I had been waiting for the first rush with the upgrades to pass and planned to take the cameras to Solms personally. These plans are now definitely cancelled. I have purchased a dozen rolls of the new Ektar 100 and hope they are as good as reported. In other words, Leica M8's are on hold and I will wait and see, when and if Leica offers an M9 and what its specifications and price are. Same with the R10 ( I also own Leica R equipment ). Time to take out my trusted M5's, the M7 and the MP again. I believe this is what I will do on my next trip in April '09 to Shanghai and Japan. Unfortunately, this is the last straw that has turned me from a Leica fan into a Leica sceptic. Teddy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 17, 2008 Posted December 17, 2008 Hi Theodor Heinrichsohn, Take a look here new upgrade prices. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
scott kirkpatrick Posted December 17, 2008 Share #122 Posted December 17, 2008 I'm feeling lucky, so far, today. I called CS in Solms to confirm that my scheduled update in 5th week of 2009 was on schedule, and was told that the old price for the update will apply since I had booked the slot already. scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe D. Posted December 17, 2008 Share #123 Posted December 17, 2008 Hi Teddy, As a life-long Leica fan who has accumulated bodies [...] and assortment of over 100 lenses [...]I was much tempted to upgrade at least one M8 [...] Unfortunately, this is the last straw that has turned me from a Leica fan into a Leica sceptic. At least we have something in common.Not the 100 lenses +, but anyway a good dozen of them here. That's the reason why i bought the M8, to use them. If i only had an M6 with a Summicron, i surly didn't. When the idea of hard upgrades was divulged, i thought, 'oho, good idea, maybe i go for it'. As the prices where published, i thought, 'all right, what about an Elmar 24mm ? ' The S2, when and if it comes out, would need brand new lenses to look at the world. Boy, with this funny commercial politic of Leica which nauseate customers more than develop their loyalty, i do forget about saving money for a red dot digital MF. If they are enough emir and oligarch around to sustain this manufacturer, that's fine. Time will tell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted December 17, 2008 Share #124 Posted December 17, 2008 Puuh, this increase is weird indeed. The upgraders might have to pay for the lensvouchers. Better to get a lens now, in Feb. you have to pay perhaps for a voucher to get a lens ... But why did they spoil Christmas for so many M8-ers? Couldn´t they wait for next year before they raised prices (again) ? Best Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 17, 2008 Share #125 Posted December 17, 2008 I'm feeling lucky, so far, today. I called CS in Solms to confirm that my scheduled update in 5th week of 2009 was on schedule, and was told that the old price for the update will apply since I had booked the slot already. scott Scott, I assume they didn't say why the prices have gone up so much? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted December 17, 2008 Share #126 Posted December 17, 2008 I believe the technical term is 'capitalism'. Well, actually other economic systems (eg, socialism) have a better track record of subsidising ridiculous business decisions. At least capitalism has mechanisms to fix them when they become unjustifiable. I believe the technical term is 'bankruptcy'... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted December 17, 2008 Share #127 Posted December 17, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) ... But why did they spoil Christmas for so many M8-ers? Couldn´t they wait for next year before they raised prices (again) ? Option A: Marketing is clueless Option B: Sales are desperately low Choose your interpretation - in both cases, good reasons to worry... Oh, I forgot Option C: they have at least learnt something from S.K. Lee: the "perpetual (price) upgrade" concept;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 17, 2008 Share #128 Posted December 17, 2008 Or C, they'd rather have the people tied up doing upgrades doing something else instead - such as building S2s or new lenses maybe? Anyone who has already booked in their camera for the upgrades will not pay the new price. How long to process those? A few months? Then maybe they want to switch people to the new camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted December 17, 2008 Share #129 Posted December 17, 2008 You're right... The upgrade-options now available will cost: Upgrade-options/Prices in € Shutter/Sapphire glass/Bright line frames 2000,- EUR Shutter/Sapphire glass 1700,- EUR Shutter/Bright line frames 1500,- EUR Sapphire glass/Bright line frames 1450,- EUR Bright line frames 1000,- EUR Shutter 1200,- EUR Sapphire glass 1150,- EUR The stated prices include VAT and are valid ex Solms. Regional differences to these tariffs are possible. Hold on a second here. The cost of upgrading the shutter and framelines is equal to that of a new Nikon D300? Is Leica saying that Nikon can produce and market an entire camera, that is more complicated than an M8x and profitable, for the same amount of money it costs Leica to swap out a shutter and frame line mask? Are they serious? Sounds to me like someone needs to cut the schnapps ration back in Solms. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted December 17, 2008 Share #130 Posted December 17, 2008 As my Framelines Anatomy thread showed, the frames are nothing more than a pair of tiny slivers of metal and, if that is the only job being done, only the top has to come off the camera. An hour's work, maximum. How does Leica justify charging €1000 for that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted December 17, 2008 Share #131 Posted December 17, 2008 On the other hand it just added a considerable number of Euro's to the value of my camera Don't want to delude you, jaapv, but I'm not sure of that. Only partly so, yes, but only partly so. Now one has to consider the future market for high gear. Is deflation likely to push prices lower, thus labor costs following suit, and consumer prices after that ? Or will a flow of bogus dollars trigger a huge inflation within a year driving prices to higher altitudes ? Surely real estate and stocks are not the only asset prone to steep decline. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted December 17, 2008 Share #132 Posted December 17, 2008 Scott, I assume they didn't say why the prices have gone up so much? I didn't ask. I was just calling to see if I should go through with the scheduled upgrade. Since there is at least a chance that I don't owe VAT, shipping them the camera from Israel, it is a good deal. Selfishly, after I get that done, I want them to work hard on shipping the new M lenses and make a success out of the S2 line. scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 17, 2008 Share #133 Posted December 17, 2008 I think this was at best an ill-considered decision, since it has managed to upset Leica's core customer base. If anybody at Leica is reading this thread - or even caring: Gentlemen and Ladies; these are Leica loyalists. You owe them at least an explanation and maybe a reconsideration of this strategy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted December 17, 2008 Share #134 Posted December 17, 2008 I believe the technical term is 'capitalism'. I think in this case the term is 'Corporate Suicide'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted December 17, 2008 Share #135 Posted December 17, 2008 I think in this case the term is 'Corporate Suicide'. Time will tell. My guess would be that it isn't. Another guess is that they increased the prices because they wanted to reduce demand for the upgrades, why they wanted to do that is open to speculation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted December 17, 2008 Share #136 Posted December 17, 2008 At least capitalism has mechanisms to fix them when they become unjustifiable. I believe the technical term is 'bankruptcy'... No, you are out of date. It's called "bailout," if you are "too big to fail." But, Leica is hardly in that category, it's 99% private anyway, and Germany is the one country in Europe that apparently still feels that it is master of its own fate and not anxious to assume responsibility for anyone else's. (enuff on that topic) scott Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted December 17, 2008 Share #137 Posted December 17, 2008 Demand for upgrades exceed(ed) the demand for the M8.2. The steep price increases will make the M8.2 more attractive among Leicaholics, relatively speaking. And demand will be rebalanced to the liking of Solms. It is that simple. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoersch Posted December 17, 2008 Share #138 Posted December 17, 2008 This thread is growing faster than I can read it, but I simply have to react to the following thought offered several times by different posters: And yes, the suspicion remains that somewhere, someone in Solms said: if the upgrade costs 2kEuros, maybe they'll just go for the M8.2... I simply can't understand how anyone in his or her right mind could react this way! I bought a camera for EUR 4.200 that never worked as it should have. Now Leica want to keep me from doing an upgrade by charging EUR 2.000 after a 50% price increase. But they hope I will buy the same camera again, only this time working, for EUR 5.000? The reasoning going like "If we piss him off hard enough he is sure to give us even more money?" Or like "If EUR 6.200 are too much for him he will be glad to spend EUR 9.200 instead?" How grotesquely out of reality can you get??? In fact, I am so pissed off I will rather go back to using my M3 and M6 and scanning film than buy another digital experimental device from that bunch of arrogant snobs. And the very second someone else offers a digital body that accepts my Leica glass I'll go there and buy one - and never look back. Trust me, Mr. Daniel and Mr. Kaufmann! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted December 17, 2008 Share #139 Posted December 17, 2008 Demand for upgrades exceed(ed) the demand for the M8.2. The steep price increases will make the M8.2 more attractive among Leicaholics, relatively speaking. And demand will be rebalanced to the liking of Solms. It is that simple. I'd call that simplistic, if I may. Proportions may get re-balanced, but the size of the pie will shrink. As I wrote earlier, I was going to send a sizeable chunk of money in Solms' direction for M8 upgrade, second M8.2 body and new lens. Not anymore. Even Leicaholics have a brain;) But perhaps it's just me - or a few of us - feeling this way:confused: Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted December 17, 2008 Share #140 Posted December 17, 2008 Manfred it looks like you will be buying the Pana G1 and the m adapter The adapter has arrived - The GetDPI Workshop Forums Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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