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jdeed1

M8.2 failure

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I'm not a hardcore Leica fanboy but I'm with jaap and Wilson on this. I have tried to reproduce the green bulb many times in my two cameras and NONE has shown this aberration. I had other problems but (I keep my fingers crossed) not this one.

 

ArtZ

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Jaap--

 

Bingo--you did it! The last post you posted actually has the green stripe artifact in it--look closely. The colour is being masked by the white balance weirdness, the green shade and the darkness / brightness of the laptop screen : )

 

Well done! Next time don't put another light source in their like the computer screen. Put a nice white wall there and it's gonna be ugly.

 

When I talked with Leica (and the head of M development) about this, they said it was not possible to fix on the M8, and that all M8s did it.

 

Just not very often

 

Here's a crop of the red channel of your shot. You sure picked the most 'masking' way to do this..no wonder you've never seen it... LOL!

 

See all the ugliness there? When that goes through a bride's head, it's not pleasant. Fortunately, it's very, very rare, even if it is there.

 

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Ok Jamie, I concede. Well, shot 16238 did it. Leica is going to the dogs...

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Ok Jamie, I concede. Well, shot 16238 did it. Leica is going to the dogs...

 

LOL!!

 

BTW--the stats sound about right... I just did a quick calculation and I bet I'm on to something like 50K shots right now on my M8, maybe even more. And I've seen it twice, unless I was trying

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I was going to post something like what Jamie did, but didn't need to.

 

Sorry Japp to burst your bubble, all M8's can and will show this flaw.

Like I said in a earlier post, I have only seen this once when actuallly not trying to produce it and I have taken close to 15000 shots with four different M8's. But I can produce it with any of those four M8's when I try.

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well, when shooting on the stage, when the subjects are lit from the back i get these things all the time.

leica has no sympathy, i think its crazy that i loose frames all the time like that.

 

bogus.

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@Mark--while we could have a whole thread on quality control (!!)--this thread has nothing to do with quality control really, at least not beyond the initial design and implementation trade-offs.

 

For myself, I wish they would--or could--fix the green banding, but it only happens under exact conditions. As I said, I don't see it that much, even though I know it's a possibility. It's certainly not disturbing enough to me for me not to use my M8, especially when the results I get with it are so compelling, even alongside my D3.

 

Jamie, the point I was trying to make was that the M8 can disappoint in just the type of shooting situation many of us look for it to shine in - available light. True, the M8 can deliver better file quality than the D3 but a situation like this is not about ultimate file quality, it's about the basic artefacts - blobs, streaks, noise, bands, bad colour - intruding into the image.

 

As for the green streak problem, the fact that Leica have not fixed it in the M8.2 just shows how superficial the changes to the camera really are.

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In a FF M9 or whatever these reference pixels will be outside the shutter and so then the green band will not occur. Menwhile I have not seen one in 6000+ exposures so it is not major issue for me.

 

The shutter is not used to frame the image - it's bigger than FF anyway (by a fraction) - and the column of reference pixels is 24 pixels wide at each end, about 0.16mm wide so the shutter will not mask it.

 

Leica will know what's causing it but, as for you, have decided it's not a major issue for them. A low cost approach to solving your design flaws, if you can get away with it.

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It's just like most 35 ASPH Summiluxes focus shift but again, not all of them.

 

In reality all 35/F1.4 ASPH lenses exhibit focus shift (it's a consequence of the lens design, not a QC thing) but most also backfocus badly on an M8 and that makes the focus shift more obvious and problematic.

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In reality all 35/F1.4 ASPH lenses exhibit focus shift (it's a consequence of the lens design, not a QC thing) but most also backfocus badly on an M8 and that makes the focus shift more obvious and problematic.

 

Ian,

Another forum member and I have 35 ASPH Summiluxes (coincidentally or maybe not, both Chrome with serial numbers quite close to each other from 2006) which show minimal focus shift. There was quite a bit of skepticism when we said this but I published test chart images on this forum, which demonstrated this serendipitous result.

 

I discussed this at Solms earlier this year, when I left the 35 Lux for coding, stressing not to touch anything else on this gem of a lens. The reply that I got was interesting. They agreed that the very occasional one came out with next to no focus shift but they had been unable to reproduce why this was. It might be micro differences in the asymmetrical element. I don't know if you have seen the amazing machine which grinds these, with computer controlled magnetic powder on a grinding band but even with that, I am guessing that the elements vary a bit. The 50 Lux with the internal moving focusing element, has more self correction for aperture shift and is thus, a more consistent performer from lens to lens.

 

I agree with you that the effect of aperture shift can be minimised by setting up the lens with a tad of front focus wide open (fields split 50/50 is about right I think), then a good lens will only shift to the ideal 1/3rd behind and 2/3rd's in front as you stop down. The problem with the 35 Lux is that some lenses (I think that one forum member had two of them) can aperture shift right out of the DOF as you stop down. A trip to Solms can improve these lenses a bit but shift still remains a major problem on them.

 

Wilson

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The shutter is not used to frame the image - it's bigger than FF anyway (by a fraction) - and the column of reference pixels is 24 pixels wide at each end, about 0.16mm wide so the shutter will not mask it.

 

Leica will know what's causing it but, as for you, have decided it's not a major issue for them. A low cost approach to solving your design flaws, if you can get away with it.

 

In my opinion there is a very easy way to fix the green line/band but it has to be done before the cover glass goes on sensor. Which is something Kodak has to do in the manufacturing of the sensor

That is to paint/coat/whatever the pixels under the black boarder so they can NOT receive any light at all. the overall effect is the same and you won't get the green line/band.

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I got the green band once in 12250 exposures.

 

However I get filters reflections all the time and hate them. I can figure most of the time when it is going to happen so I check it on the LCD, and if it happens and looks too big to be fixed, I'll just remove the filter and know that until I put it back, all the pictures will have to be converted to black and white (It always happens with artificial lighting, and there is always someone wearing black synthetic fabric around).

 

I live with it, and decided to enjoy taking IR or UV shots more than I hate the IR/UV block filters.

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