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jdeed1

M8.2 failure

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Indeed it is, Chris, but say one did all that and got his or her picture ruined by said reflections...

Just my .02.

 

The shot is only ruined IF YOU think it is ruined and or can't be corrected in post. But still it is your feeling, judgement, as to whether the shot is ruined. You can't tell me that you haven't had reflections, glare, in shots that otherwise were what you were lookiing for and you still used those shots.

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It seems to only occure on the sides, short sides, of the sensor. This is totally reproducible wioth any M8.

 

Of course, it's the reference pixels at the ends of each row which are meant to be masked and light is leaking in, affecting the sensor's view of what "black" is.

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No, I mean that i only had those kind of reflexes or green bars in determinated circumstances and just because of the filter. Here you are another example: The first one with filter on the second with filter off. In the second picture the candles reflex is gone.

Both taken at the same time. Keep in mind that I did not work on these picture, alas the colours.

 

/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3151/3031835904_4440be9992_b.jpg&key=571bf8faccc576c9f00ea7486f182a79107ba05225abf45ca331f1fe2f077a43">

 

About 5 minute in PS CS4. Not perfect but then it was on the Jpeg you posted.

 

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With all respect to the M8 and M8.2, these types of situations with bright light sources in or on the edge of the scene are not the best playground for this camera.

 

Earlier this year I tried to take some shots that turned out mostly unusable for reasons of reflections and bandings.

Fortunately I had my 30d on hand which is much better suited to such lowlight situations IMO.It performed flawlessly.

It is a weakness of the M8 and unfortunately will not be fixed IMO.

Here a shot from my 'leica backup'

Andy

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About 5 minute in PS CS4. Not perfect but then it was on the Jpeg you posted.

 

Shootist, that's what i thought to do. Thank you for showing it. It is very ok that way.

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With all respect to the M8 and M8.2, these types of situations with bright light sources in or on the edge of the scene are not the best playground for this camera.

 

Earlier this year I tried to take some shots that turned out mostly unusable for reasons of reflections and bandings.

Fortunately I had my 30d on hand which is much better suited to such lowlight situations IMO.It performed flawlessly.

It is a weakness of the M8 and unfortunately will not be fixed IMO.

Here a shot from my 'leica backup'

Andy

 

A little Clone stamp and spot healing and walla.

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A little Clone stamp and spot healing and walla.

[ATTACH]112636[/ATTACH]

 

sorry but I have no idea what you mean....the above image is a 30d image that I thought was fine...what did you do and why?

 

tx

andy

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sorry but I have no idea what you mean....the above image is a 30d image that I thought was fine...what did you do and why?

 

tx

andy

Well I saw and cleaned up all the banding on the back wall. You couldn't see that?

I thought it was a M8 image that you didn't like because of the banding and had switched to a Canon after that shot.

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What a riot... just so the OP knows what's what...

  • The green band Ed (Shootist) shows by demonstration is common to *all* M8s, even Jaap's. Andy also mis-spoke a bit, in that while it might be a common complaint here on the fora, the artifact is not exactly a common occurence for most M8 shooters. I've seen it from an actual shoot exactly 2 times almost exactly as many years, through tens of thousands of shots on my m8.
  • The "red and green blobs" are filter reflections from point sources (like candles). These will happen to *any* camera period--Nikon, Canon, anything...even a film M...if you use a filter, even a UV filter.
     
    Yes, to avoid a lot of IR you are somewhat stuck with the M8 needing an external filter. But there are many ways to skin that particular cat in that particular situation.

In short, the OP's M8.2 works exactly the same way his M8 did, and the same way as any other M8 does.

 

I guess you can either not accept that, and not use your camera, or sell it or whatever, or use it.

 

@Mark--while we could have a whole thread on quality control (!!)--this thread has nothing to do with quality control really, at least not beyond the initial design and implementation trade-offs.

 

For myself, I wish they would--or could--fix the green banding, but it only happens under exact conditions. As I said, I don't see it that much, even though I know it's a possibility. It's certainly not disturbing enough to me for me not to use my M8, especially when the results I get with it are so compelling, even alongside my D3.

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Jamie you are right. In the almost 2 years I have been using a M8 I have only had one instance of the green banding when not trying to produce it. That is the first image I posted showing it.

Now that I know it can happen I make sure a bright light source is either fully inside or totally outside the image I want to capture, not on the edge of it.

 

As far as the reflections I have had this happen on numerous images and always thought "That image is ruined" until I came to the conclusion that I thought that way only because someone else had made that decision about there shot. I have come around on this and now don't let it bother me. It is a picture and let it speak for itself. If I like the subject of the shot then it could have reflections all over the place.

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Of course, it's the reference pixels at the ends of each row which are meant to be masked and light is leaking in, affecting the sensor's view of what "black" is.

 

Is this because of the higher angels of incidence produced by M lenses or somehting they might be able to address in future?

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In a FF M9 or whatever these reference pixels will be outside the shutter and so then the green band will not occur. Menwhile I have not seen one in 6000+ exposures so it is not major issue for me.

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In a FF M9 or whatever these reference pixels will be outside the shutter and so then the green band will not occur. Menwhile I have not seen one in 6000+ exposures so it is not major issue for me.

 

This is just pure speculation. The problem only occurs when there is a bright light at the edge of one of the short sides of the sensor. I have tried numerous time to make it happen with a light at the long sides of the sensor and I can't make it happen.

No other camera I know of has this problem so it seems the cover glass of the M8 sensor is letting in light on the short sides causing this.

Funny how Leica and or Kodak has not fixed this with newer sensors.

Could be because of the lenses over the pixels on the short side of the sensor. The sides do have to deal with light hitting them at a greater angle then the top or bottom.

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I find this whole green/red blob line band issue confusing.On the one hand some say this is a sensor /filter issue common to all M8's whereas others eg Jaap- see his earlier post- have never seen this problem. Which is it? It cannot be both unless those that have never seen the problem never shoot in low light with bright external light sources!. Whilst I understand and accept the reflection issue, in so far as the line / banding problem is concerned logic says it must affect only some sensors and if so these sensors can be described as defective.

John

Indeed; and I shoot in low light with point sources quite often. I even tried to reproduce the phenomen and failed. I have no idea about the proportion of cameras that are afflicted, all I can say that some seem to be immune to the problem. It is malicious nonsense to attribute this to fanboyism. My take is that those sensors are simply defective - and they shouldn't be.

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Indeed; and I shoot in low light with point sources quite often. I even tried to reproduce the phenomen and failed. I have no idea about the proportion of cameras that are afflicted, all I can say that some seem to be immune to the problem.

 

I throughly doubt that. If you and I ever meet up I bet I can rerproduce this with both of your M8's. You're just not trying hard enough.

 

Take the shade off a lamp and place the bare bulb one quarter in, 3 quarters out of the frame or just outside the frame but still able to see that there is a bright light source.

That is on the short side of the sensor. It doesn't happen on the long side.

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I throughly doubt that. If you and I ever meet up I bet I can rerproduce this with both of your M8's. You're just not trying hard enough.

 

Take the shade off a lamp and place the bare bulb one quarter in, 3 quarters out of the frame or just outside the frame but still able to see that there is a bright light source.

That is on the short side of the sensor. It doesn't happen on the long side.

 

Like this you mean?

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I am with Jaap on this. I too shoot a lot in low light, often with ultra bright spot lights around at village music festivals. I have never had a green line in 6,000 images but I have had point reflections, flare and ghosting especially if I have left an IR/UV filter on. The B+W filters seem to suffer from this worse than the Leica ones. It is also easy to get pink sunlight ghost images on shots taken with a low angle sun.

 

What I think this demonstrates is that some, maybe most M8's green band with bright lights at the image margins but not all of them. It's just like most 35 ASPH Summiluxes focus shift but again, not all of them.

 

Wilson

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