prunelle Posted March 28, 2011 Share #41 Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) If it says "Leica" on the body of the camera, then it is a Leica, even if it's made in Japan and never sees Germany. ... You might find some of these links interesting. ... Thank you andy; maybe I'll feel less frustrated after reading them although... how do I know that Leica isn't selling re-branded average cameras just to make money on my back? Given the times, it wouldn't be that surprising would it? Leica model crossover Some Panasonic and Leica cameras are more or less the same. The differences, other than the obvious exterior styling, are in the camera firmware. ... The Leica and Panasonic cameras produce the same RAW image, but will process white balance, noise reduction, etc. differently for jpeg output. Lumix cameras are less expensive than their Leica counterparts due to the companies' marketing strategies. Edited March 28, 2011 by prunelle Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 28, 2011 Posted March 28, 2011 Hi prunelle, Take a look here Rules in the Leica Forum. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bill Posted March 28, 2011 Share #42 Posted March 28, 2011 GAAH!! Nonsense skimlinks! :mad::mad: Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prunelle Posted March 28, 2011 Share #43 Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) GAAH!! Nonsense skimlinks! What's that? The links are perfectly working. Okay, I removed the links but I haven't got any idea of what you were talking about. Edited March 28, 2011 by prunelle Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 28, 2011 Share #44 Posted March 28, 2011 Thank you andy; maybe I'll feel less frustrated after reading them although... how do I know that Leica isn't selling re-branded average cameras just to make money on my back? Given the times, it wouldn't be that surprising would it? They have a brand and a reputation to maintain and support. The Panasonic Leicas (you might see "Panaleica" as a descriptive term) are amongst the best in class for their type of camera. Never forget that you have a choice - you don't have to buy the Leica version of a Panasonic camera if you don't want to (although there are good reasons why you should consider this). Indeed, you can go and buy a camera from one of a dozen other brands of course. However, if you want a "real" Leica, you have to pay "real Leica" prices. The cheapest new "real Leica" is currently the M7 or MP at around £3,500, followed by the M9 at £5,000 The X1 is an oddity. It is not part of the collaboration with Panasonic, but is mostly made in the far east and finished off in Germany. It has no clone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prunelle Posted March 28, 2011 Share #45 Posted March 28, 2011 They have a brand and a reputation to maintain and support. The Panasonic Leicas (you might see "Panaleica" as a descriptive term) are amongst the best in class for their type of camera. Never forget that you have a choice - .. Not really. When you buy a Leica, you expect to get something unique, until you learn that the camera you just bought is a clone of another one, cheaper. Nobody informs you of this. I trusted Leica; I was wrong. That's all. Anyway, I'm not unhappy with my V-Lux, just a bit more bitter and furious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 28, 2011 Share #46 Posted March 28, 2011 Anne, please don't be. Look at it this way; does your V-Lux take any different pictures today to those it produced yesterday? Has its performance or capability changed one jot or iota because you know today that it has a Panasonic sibling? No. It is still the highly competent picture taking machine that you bought. Leica is not just a physical company, it is a state of mind. Getting upset about this is about as productive as railing against the special edition "safari" D-Lux 4 or the white M8 or the Hermes MP - there have been special editions almost since the beginning of the brand and there have been collaborations almost that long - you don't think Leica made their own flash units, do you, or light-meters back in the days of the MR4? The point is, Leica are careful who they ally themselves with and protect their brand jealously. Panasonic have proven to be a good partner and their alliance a profitable one. Don't lose sleep over it - it is all within the compass of the Red Dot. Regards, Bill 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 28, 2011 Share #47 Posted March 28, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you andy; maybe I'll feel less frustrated after reading them although... how do I know that Leica isn't selling re-branded average cameras just to make money on my back? Given the times, it wouldn't be that surprising would it? Umm..Isn't it the purpose of any company to make money? It might surprise you, but the Volvo S60/S80 and Jaguar X-type are built on a Ford Mondeo platform So what? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 28, 2011 Share #48 Posted March 28, 2011 Just about every review of the Panasonic or Leica mentions the other and vice versa! I'm surprised that someone would buy a relatively expensive camera without reading at least a couple of reviews. Anyway, for some historical reference points, google 'Leica CL' and 'Minolta CL' and you'll see that the basic idea of sharing a common platform/production line isn't new. The Leica CL and lenses were made by Minolta, just as your V lux is made by Panasonic. Don't be upset, don't feel scammed, the camera you have is exactly what you bought. It isn't anything 'less' because its made by Panasonic. Your membership to the exclusive Leica club is valid! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 28, 2011 Share #49 Posted March 28, 2011 Anyway, I'm not unhappy with my V-Lux, just a bit more bitter and furious. Leica have had their cheaper cameras made by 3rd parties for a while. The Minilux was build by Panasonic, and as other have said Fuji and Minolta were also involved at one stage. Indeed Minolta (and Sigma?) made some of the early R zoom lenses. The Panasonic v Leica version of the same camera has been debated many times on the forum. I'd say that the consensus is that the cameras are the same, but the Leica tends to have a better warranty, and usually better software. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prunelle Posted March 28, 2011 Share #50 Posted March 28, 2011 Anne, please don't be.... Thank you very much for your kind words Bill. I like my camera more and more every day, but I still feel uneasy about it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prunelle Posted March 28, 2011 Share #51 Posted March 28, 2011 Just about every review of the Panasonic or Leica mentions the other and vice versa! I'm surprised that someone would buy a relatively expensive camera without reading at least a couple of reviews.... You do that for any other brand, not for Leica. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 28, 2011 Share #52 Posted March 28, 2011 Now that you've found the Forum, you won't be short of opinions when you come to buy your NEXT Leica I do have to agree with James, though. Even when I bought my daughter a Canon S95 recently, at less than half the price of a V-Lux 2, I read some dpreviews and comparisons of it against similar cameras. I would always check out the opposition before a purchase of hundreds of ££s The only ones I haven't reviewed against their peers are my Leicas - they have none Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 28, 2011 Share #53 Posted March 28, 2011 If a photograph is uploaded to illustrate a point in a forum post, and this photo shows Leica cameras, lenses or equipment, in order to demonstrate a point about the illustrated equipment, I don't think it is particularly relevant whether this photograph is taken with Leica equipment or not. I think on the other hand, it is fair that photographs for the gallery or photographs sections are taken with equipment which includes a significant proportion of Leica equipment. I think the rule should perhaps be clarified for these situations. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted March 28, 2011 Share #54 Posted March 28, 2011 ... I think the rule should perhaps be clarified for these situations. I think the rules are really quite clear concerning this point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 28, 2011 Share #55 Posted March 28, 2011 I think the rule should perhaps be clarified for these situations. Wilson That's exactly how the rule works now. Prerequisite for placing a photo is that it has been made with Leica equipment and/or has a strong relationship to a Leica subject So, if you want to show a Leica lens problem and you need to use a Canon to shoot it with, that's perfectly acceptable. Photographs of your dog taken with the same Canon are not. Unless the dog is using a Leica, or has just swallowed a Leica, or something equally unlikely. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 28, 2011 Share #56 Posted March 28, 2011 I should have made it clearer that it was the last sentence in the paragraph staring "Prerequisite for placing a photo...", which reads: "In general, photographs taken without the use of Leica equipment are not permitted" to which I was referring. I felt this sentence was slightly in conflict with the first sentence, which does permit the use of other cameras to take photos of Leica equipment. I accept that I might be being somewhat pernickety but to avoid any conflict or misinterpretation between the two sentences, the last one might be better worded as "In general, photographs taken without the use of Leica equipment are not permitted, unless the photograph illustrates Leica equipment" or possibly missed out altogether, as it really duplicates what has already been said in the first sentence. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 29, 2011 Share #57 Posted March 29, 2011 Wilson, I think you are rather over complicating matters! If a newbie posts a non-Leica photo, as sometimes happens (and even non newbies on occassion - sorry!) then the Mods can sort it out easily. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 29, 2011 Share #58 Posted March 29, 2011 Wilson, I think you are rather over complicating matters! If a newbie posts a non-Leica photo, as sometimes happens (and even non newbies on occassion - sorry!) then the Mods can sort it out easily. James, Probably guilty as charged but I am sure you know how certain forum members will pick over and get very steamed up over the tiniest minutiae of how any rule is applied or not applied. It was for this reason, that I thought it might be best if any conflict or ambiguity was eliminated. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 29, 2011 Share #59 Posted March 29, 2011 Photographs of your dog taken with the same Canon are not. Unless the dog is using a Leica, or has just swallowed a Leica, or something equally unlikely. What about if the dog is a Laika ...? Just sayin'... Regards, Bill 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 29, 2011 Share #60 Posted March 29, 2011 James, ..but I am sure you know how certain forum members will pick over and get very steamed up over the tiniest minutiae of how any rule is applied or not applied. Wilson Very true! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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