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marknorton

Hot Air and Broken Promises - 2

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Actually, at the risk of hijacking this thread, Dalippe is right. Slandering Americans, even in joking, has become so commonplace that it often seems unconsciously done. They are a soft target. If another national or ethnic group were referenced the sentence would make one sit up and take notice. Use "American" and one glosses over it with a chuckle. It appears okay to laugh at them.

 

That's why he reacted.

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Actually, at the risk of hijacking this thread, Dalippe is right. Slandering Americans, even in joking, has become so commonplace that it often seems unconsciously done. They are a soft target. If another national or ethnic group were referenced the sentence would make one sit up and take notice. Use "American" and one glosses over it with a chuckle. It appears okay to laugh at them.

 

That's why he reacted.

 

Yes, thank you for pointing that out. I also apologize if I have hijacked this thread. After all, I just recently complained in another thread when others started to hijack it. I think I made my point and will let it rest for the moment.

 

David

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Interesting. I've only noticed a few people on this topic repeatedly telling us to "go sue if you're mad", and they don't appear to be from the US (and at least two of them don't use an M8).

 

Those same folks have repeatedly posted on these threads, so I think I get the point---"only a fool listens to a corporate official", "listen to Mr. Daniel", "go sue someone", and "stop whining". The clear subtext message to anyone who disagrees with these points appears to be "shut up, you idiots".

 

Surprisingly, this well-reasoned and presented message has not stopped people from expressing some dissatisfaction with this new facet of Leica's upgrade policy.

 

Later,

 

Clyde

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Interesting..................

 

Surprisingly, this well-reasoned and presented message has not stopped people from expressing some dissatisfaction with this new facet of Leica's upgrade policy.

 

 

Chuckle

Well said!

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.............. I will not be spending an additional €20000 with Leica...........

 

Neither will I

 

Dikdik

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Do you think this is a "prognostic" statement?

 

"With the introduction of a perpetual upgrade program, every LEICA M8 is a high-quality digital camera, in which today's and tomorrow's users will always be able to incorporate the latest refinements and developments in handling ease and technology."

 

Sounds a bit more certain than "anticipate", "assume", "think", "estimate", "expect", "intend", "can/could", "plan", "project", "should", doesn't it?

 

Not at all. And this doesn't come close to fitting into the hyperbole mode of advertising we see for products like Axe. The average person is supposed to watch commercials like that and understand it's pure fantasy. Women are not going to flock to you because you wear a different scent.

But when companies make promises to their customers - they break those promises at their own peril. And looking at this company's recent financials - that peril is very real indeed.

 

One thing is pretty much indisputable at the moment - Leica is a company in turmoil. These sorts of abrupt changes in direction are great evidence of that.

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Interesting. I've only noticed a few people on this topic repeatedly telling us to "go sue if you're mad", and they don't appear to be from the US (and at least two of them don't use an M8).

 

What on earth has location got to do with it? I'm already aware of the censorious bigotry that holds the view "No M8, no comment", but it's the first time being part of the free world has been brought up as a counter argument.

 

I fear you have also misunderstood what you call the "subtext". It is actually "If you are unhappy do something about it". Sue or sell but do something constructive rather than constantly posturing about how badly Leica has behaved. Resurrecting this thread like a comedy vampire is hardly going to get the subject treated seriously.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

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What on earth has location got to do with it?

 

I'm not sure. Someone else brought it up.

 

Sue or sell but do something constructive rather than constantly posturing about how badly Leica has behaved.

 

Thank you for clearing things up---you're not saying "shut up", you're helping me to be constructive. By gum, I'll contact my soliciter first thing tomorrow, right after I sell all my favorite gear! That's a far better answer than simply discussing the matter with other M8 owners on a Leica forum.

 

Resurrecting this thread like a comedy vampire is hardly going to get the subject treated seriously.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Wow. Did you realize that you've posted to these two threads over thirty times?

 

Later,

 

Clyde

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Hot promises and broken air....Oh boo hoo, my camera hasn't made me good looking, brilliant and enlarged my genitalia....Grumpy old men.

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Guest stnami
enlarged my genitalia
......dazzled by those pesky emails? Sounds like you have finally succumbed and bought a box full of magic pills:D

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Hot promises and broken air....Oh boo hoo, my camera hasn't made me good looking, brilliant and enlarged my genitalia....Grumpy old men.

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...I'll contact my soliciter first thing tomorrow, right after I sell all my favorite gear...

This way you'll miss evidences to support your claim i'm afraid. Never sell anything before discussing the matter with your solicitor. Do not buy expensive gear either as you'll need some money to appoint the former. Just kidding or course (lawyer here).

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I heard an expression used on the television last night: 'Piecrust Promises - easily made easily broken' which sems to sum up Leica's attittude to the topic of this thread.

 

Jeff

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Leica's 'broken promise' is rather trivial compared to;

 

Politicians..........too many examples to mention!!!

 

Car manufacturers - who has ever acheived the published MPG !!!

 

KFC - fingerlicking good, I don't think so!!!

 

God - why didn't the Bible have a legal disclaimer?

 

The restaurant in Turkey I dined at that had a proud statement on their menu "we guarantee our food give you no trots" (honestly).......

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James, presumably you did not get the trots!

 

If you measure a new car's petrol consumption stirctly under the conditions specified you should get the same results. Don't the car manufacturers put out consumption figures obtained during the same controlled conditions? So they are useful for comparison purposes.

 

Leica made a very distinct statement not a 'prognostic' statement. Not just on their website but in a press release widely distributed and acclaimed, for the purpose of boosting flagging sales. Not just on their website but also in emails to customers.

 

I cant afford to test this in court so I have to accept it. I'm sure in years to come we will get over it, but I think it wont be forgotten, it will become part of Leica's history.

 

Jeff

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Guest stnami
it will become part of Leica's history
..folklore Jeff, along with the pixies and trolls

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I just read document copied into the first post of the original thread, to try to understand what the whinging is about. It looks to me like an announcement of a firmware upgrade with a commitment to issuing further firmware upgrades into the future. All digital camera manufacturers do this, but seem to stop doing so for a model which had been replaced. Perhaps Leica will continue to issue further firmware upgrades for M8 even though the M8.2 is available????

 

Leica have offered a range of mechanical changes which are somewhat expensive. Some customers would clearly like different upgrades, which may well arrive if mechanically feasible, I am sure Leica monitor peoples wishes and will be glad to oblige the less fanciful ones where plausible.

 

Assuming any desired mechanical upgrades regardless of how physically practical they may be to implement is naive at best.

 

IMHO

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Frank, I certainly agree with you that we can't expect mechanical or electronic enhancements if they are not technically feasible. There's a danger of tying the engineer's hands behind their back if backwards compatability is an absolute requirement.

 

In this case, we're speaking only of firmware enhancements which could perfectly well be provided on the M8 or M8u except that Leica, desperate to justify the higher M8.2 pricing, have gone back on their promises and denied them to the early M8 adopters.

 

Just as well they have not tried to claim it's down to some "technical limitation" because I would then immediately go public with all the details to prove them wrong. My Agilent Digital Storage 'scope is just itching for its 15 minutes of fame...

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Just as well they have not tried to claim it's down to some "technical limitation" because I would then immediately go public with all the details to prove them wrong. My Agilent Digital Storage 'scope is just itching for its 15 minutes of fame...

 

That's nonsense! You clearly imply here that they (Leica) would lie whenever they could, while they have already accepted that they just wanted to differentiate the two cameras!

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