Too Much for a rangefinder

[tom0511]

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Tom,

 

For me has been the opposite. My both M8 have traveled a few times from Paris to Solms and both cameras have been replaced...

 

On the other hand, I use regularly a Ricoh GRD II, a Powershot S80, a Canon G9 I bought last April for the Philippines (don't walk in Manila with a M8!) which I've just replaced for a Canon G10 last week and I never had a problem with these cameras.

 

And with DSLR Canon cameras (1Ds, 10D, 2 x 20D, 5D and 1Ds MK III) I had experienced only one problem with one of the 20D which had some dust between the AA filter and the sensor (the camera was replaced)

 

Finally, I'm saying image quality of the G10 is better than M8's but it can be very close especially when you consider its price.

 

I dont see what image quality and price have to do with each other. Specially the limited dynamic range of small sensor cameras is a big problem IMO, besides the noise when you need to increase the ISO a little.

[fotografr]

Time for a reality check:

 

The M8.2 costs about the same as:

1. A decent watch

2. A nice guitar

3. A good amateur sports bicycle

4. A one week skiing holiday for a family of four.

5. One year's worth of Iraq war per USA citizen.

 

Not particularly expensive imo....

 

We must live in different worlds.

-I thought I had a decent watch. It cost $450.

-I used to have a nice guitar. It cost $600.

-I bought a good amateur bike two years ago--for $800.

-My family is two people, so I can't compare ski trips.

-One year's worth of war--now that one I can entirely do without.

 

The M8.2 is hardly inexpensive. But it's still a cost I'm willing to bear because it's too much pleasure to pass up.

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[tom0511]

.....I said my M8s are becoming toys... well, for instance, when, you need to take in account the climate to use (or not) a camera if you don't want to miss/ruin your photos, I cannot really consider it as a professional camera.

 

ArtZ

 

Art,

who cares if something can be considered professional or not - however the M8 is more robust than some people here claim. Leaving it at home because being afraid of getting a problem is one thing, really getting a problem another. IMO you had bad luck.

It is the smallest camera which can deliever such outstanding IQ, it has a nice bright viewfinder and a very short shutter lag.

If you use a G10 because the M8 is too big or too heavy or to expensive - I could understand.

But saying the M8 is not reliable/robust and non pro and than using a G10 instead I can not see what you gain here with the G10.

[terrycioni]

I don't happen to think that "elitist" is a bad word. Face reality, as soon as you get into the range of Leicas, you are joining an elite group of photographers, even if your political convictions are bright red...A thought: is that why the dot is red???

 

As sad or not as this is, I believe Leica has decided to further become photography tools for the "elite" and fair enough if that is what they choose to do.

 

Indeed, they maybe smarter than we often give them credit for, it is only the rich in today's depressed economy who can afford to indulge in the red dot as opposed to say Nikon or Canon.

 

More amazing to me is that a new M7 is MSP well over $4000. Putting that into some sort of useable perspective an M7 with a 50mm F1.4 is well over $6000. A Nikon F6 with a 50mm F1.4 about $2000 or less. But it is just a Nikon SLR and not a Leica.

 

I wonder how film body sales compare with digital body sales at Leica. It would be fun to know that....

 

Best regards, Terry

[jamriman]

We must live in different worlds.

-I thought I had a decent watch. It cost $450.

-I used to have a nice guitar. It cost $600.

-I bought a good amateur bike two years ago--for $800.

-My family is two people, so I can't compare ski trips.

-One year's worth of war--now that one I can entirely do without.

 

The M8.2 is hardly inexpensive. But it's still a cost I'm willing to bear because it's too much pleasure to pass up.

 

Brent,

You are killing me. It's getting harder to pass up. I must remain strong or stop reading these posts!

[jaapv]

We must live in different worlds.

-I thought I had a decent watch. It cost $450.

-I used to have a nice guitar. It cost $600.

-I bought a good amateur bike two years ago--for $800.

-My family is two people, so I can't compare ski trips.

-One year's worth of war--now that one I can entirely do without.

 

The M8.2 is hardly inexpensive. But it's still a cost I'm willing to bear because it's too much pleasure to pass up.

 

 

You see, Brent, we disagree on everything - except the M8 (and the war:rolleyes: )

[Jamie Roberts]

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The Canon G10 costs 1/10th as much as the Leica M8 body alone... I have bought one last week and I'm seriously considering if I will take my M8s to Costa Rica next week... I think the G10 and my old 5D (smaller than 1Ds MKIII) together with three L lenses (16-35mm, 24-70mm and 70-200mm) can cover perfectly all my needs during the month I will spend in Costa Rica.

 

I realize that my M8s are becoming toys... I cannot really relay on them

 

s'funny--I feel exactly the opposite way.

 

I have a G series camera and might get a G10, but sold my 5d and am glad to see it go (replaced with a D3 for AF).

 

But for my work I rely on the M8 more and more and more--the last firmware has made the camera much more usable IMO. I can't wait for the M9 when it happens.

[stunsworth]

If it's too much then don't buy it. Doesn't matter if it's a camera, a car or a house, it's the same principle.

 

I'd like Leicas to be cheaper too, but the prices are decided by Leica. It's their call. If they screw up they'll adjust them.

[jamriman]

As sad or not as this is, I believe Leica has decided to further become photography tools for the "elite" and fair enough if that is what they choose to do.

 

Indeed, they maybe smarter than we often give them credit for, it is only the rich in today's depressed economy who can afford to indulge in the red dot as opposed to say Nikon or Canon.

 

More amazing to me is that a new M7 is MSP well over $4000. Putting that into some sort of useable perspective an M7 with a 50mm F1.4 is well over $6000. A Nikon F6 with a 50mm F1.4 about $2000 or less. But it is just a Nikon SLR and not a Leica.

 

I wonder how film body sales compare with digital body sales at Leica. It would be fun to know that....

 

Best regards, Terry

 

True Terry,

But thats only if you buy new leica stuff. I own allot of leica lenses an M8 and collectible M3, M2 and a IIIf red dial and a few old lenses. I actually sold off my M5 which I regret. Fortunately for us middle class people there is a strong used leica market. With the prices of the nocti today some of these lenses have proved to be good investments.

[fotografr]

Brent,

You are killing me. It's getting harder to pass up. I must remain strong or stop reading these posts!

 

Take two aspirin and call your doctor in the morning.

 

You see, Brent, we disagree on everything - except the M8 (and the war:rolleyes: )

 

You like the war??

[jaapv]

No- you misinterpret - I wrote we agreed on the war-that we could do without.

[jamriman]

Take two aspirin and call your doctor in the morning.

 

You must mean my shrink ;^)

[fotografr]

No- you misinterpret - I wrote we agreed on the war-that we could do without.

 

Whew! Sorry!

 

Take two aspirin and call your doctor in the morning.

 

You must mean my shrink

 

No, your dentist.

[guy]

Time for a reality check:

 

The M8.2 costs about the same as:

1. A decent watch

2. A nice guitar

3. A good amateur sports bicycle

4. A one week skiing holiday for a family of four.

5. One year's worth of Iraq war per USA citizen.

 

Not particularly expensive imo....

 

I'm intrigued by the idea that, instead of the (controversial) war, the US government could just have given everyone in the US an M8. Which would not only have been good for them, but might perhaps have driven prices down a bit for us in Europe. Hell, under those circumstances, even I might've voted for Dubya

[dcoombs]

I'm intrigued by the idea that, instead of the (controversial) war, the US government could just have given everyone in the US an M8. Which would not only have been good for them, but might perhaps have driven prices down a bit for us in Europe. Hell, under those circumstances, even I might've voted for Dubya

 

Ha! Just think how long it would take Solms to fill that order!

[Shootist]

No- you misinterpret - I wrote we agreed on the war-that we could do without.

 

Whether I agree or disagree with how and where this war is being fought the simple fact still remains. The USA was attached by foreign entities and it needed to be stopped.

Just remember that if it wasn't for the USA, twice in the last century, most of Europe (if not all) would be speaking German or Russian right now.

How easy do we forget.

 

That's all on that subject. Back to the M8 and photography.

[chrism]

I strongly believe it is a mistake to let politics or religion get into otherwise pleasant forums dedicated to far more important issues than either.

 

Chris

[jevidon]

Why not purchase it from a reputable Leica dealer located in Europe? He will price it in Euros and you get the favorable exchange rate. The Euro is down to E1.25 to the dollar today and that is approximately 17% off it's high. Shipping for a body would be approximately $50, you would pay neither U.S. sales tax, nor European VAT, and you would be ahead of the game. BTW you may get hit for U.S. import tax, but that is still less than you'd pay here (U.S.).

 

J.E.

[jamriman]

Americans,

 

Now is the time to purchase M8s in Europe! This because the US $ has increased with about 10% towards the € in a very short time. - And you are not obliged to pay local VAT. Insist on that. The European warranty is international. Leica New Jersey will be helpful sending your camera on the Solms if it is needed. I bought my M8 in Singapore (to save the VAT) and the Norewegian dealer has been helpful sending it - free of charge, to Solms for warranty repair.

 

Most likely, the US dollar must strenghten even more towards the Euro before you see Leica - and their US dealers, having possibility to reduce the price. After all, the dollar was still 20% higher than today when M8 was planned.

 

If we want the Leica M system to survive we must buy the stuff. I plan to buy a 21 mm 1,4 next year, even though I have a WATE. A fast wide angle is 'just what I need' with my M8. do anyone know when it will be in the shops and what it will cost?

 

Further; Leica has 'always' been expensive! What's new about that? I started my 'Leica career' by buying the stuff 2.hand. Buying a Leica lense new was regarded as economical harakiri. It is first when I am middle aged, my morgages are payed down and I am soon to retire that I can afford that kind of extravaganza of buying this stuff new.

 

German POWs sold their Leicas for a kilo of butter back in 45'. Since then the price of Leica gear, - compared to our purchasing power, has constantly gone down. Isn't that fine?

 

I think this point was already posted in this thread.

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Hallo,

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[ArtZ]

Why not purchase it from a reputable Leica dealer located in Europe? He will price it in Euros and you get the favorable exchange rate. The Euro is down to E1.25 to the dollar today and that is approximately 17% off it's high. Shipping for a body would be approximately $50, you would pay neither U.S. sales tax, nor European VAT, and you would be ahead of the game. BTW you may get hit for U.S. import tax, but that is still less than you'd pay here (U.S.).

 

J.E.

 

Jim,

 

Actually is not that easy.

 

Detaxe or tax refund does not mean that all tax will be refunded. Currently, TVA rate of most goods is 19.6% in France, but tax refund rate is normally 12%.

 

France Guide: Official Website of French Tourist Office - Tax Free

 

I think this rate of 12% is the same in all EC. A friend of mine from Chile bought some goods in Spain and in the UK he could detaxe only 12% when he left the EU.

 

For more information about formalities, this is the French Customs Web Site:

 

Site internet de la Douane : Tax Free Shopping

 

ArtZ